This E-collar Training Is Too Intense For My Dog

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Welcome to Off Leash and Unfiltered. Trigger warning. I'm Kati Peppe, delivering the truth in dog training.

Hey everybody, this is your host, Kati Peppe. Before we jump in, I just wanted to take a quick second and remind you to hit the subscribe button because that helps us so, so, so much. We appreciate every subscribe and follow, and we have so much valuable information we wanna share with you. So we don't want you to miss an episode. Without further ado, let's jump in. Hey everybody, thanks for joining me for another episode of Off Leash and Unfiltered. Hope everybody's doing great today. Uh, today was the first day I had to get up super early to bring my daughter to school.

Um, yesterday was actually her first day, but my husband drives her on Mondays, so it was my turn today and it went way better than I expected. <laugh>. So I'm not a morning person and normally, um, getting up super early just doesn't go well. <laugh>

For me. Um, and you know, I, I try to have days where I, I do that intentionally and sometimes it goes well and sometimes it doesn't. Uh, we tend to be up super late at my house. We're night people and we just work late into the night. We eat dinner wicked late. And so, you know, it's super hard to get up early when you're going to bed wicked late. Uh, but also my circadian rhythm is just not normal. Um, I have like a second-shift circadian rhythm, so <laugh>. But today, and today things went pretty well.

I was awake before my alarm even went off. So it was pretty easy to get up. Love it when that happens. Hate it when the alarm goes off and you're in like a deep sleep. You're like in the middle of a dream. That is the worst. Um, and it's like you spend the entire day just like trying to wake up. Um, so I'm grateful that <laugh> this morning went well, but I still didn't skip my coffee, even though I was feeling pretty good. Um, definitely stopping and got the coffee. They made it right. So, you know what, guys? It's a great day.

02:00 — Kati challenges the belief that e-collars, prong collars, and negative consequences are unsuitable for…

Um, today, I said, this is an interesting one. We get so often. I've talked about this before, but so often we get folks that think that, quote unquote, this training, right, training that involves e-collars, training that involves prong collars, training that ever involves any use of pressure or negative consequences or stim from the collar. All this stuff is for like bad dogs, right? Or it's for dogs that just need more, like positive reinforcement just isn't enough for my dog. Like, that's a thing that we hear sometimes as if it's enough for any dog out there.

Um, it's not <laugh>. So, um, and I, you know, I hate that. I hate it so, so, so much with every fiber of my being. I just cringe when somebody says that and I'm not mad at them. I'm just mad at the people that have perpetuated this idea that real training, like actual dog training, is unnecessary for most dogs or even some dogs, right?

That training that doesn't involve a downside for not listening, as if that actually works for most dogs. 'Cause that's just absolute lunacy. It's just complete bull crap. Um, there's nothing wrong with you. There's nothing wrong with your dog. I'm not saying you're doing everything right. Obviously if your dog's not listening to you, then you're not, you're not doing things right, <laugh>, right? But you're not crazy. Um, your dog's not stubborn. Your dog's not stupid most likely, right? They're just, they're not getting the message. 'Cause we're not sending it and we're not sending it because we don't know how.

Um, so, you know, a lot of people call it balanced training. I've talked about that before too. I don't like that term. I don't like any terms. I feel like there's just training and then there's not, right? You train the dog in front of you is a real common saying, and you use the best tools for the job and you use them the best way for that dog and that family. Um, and that dynamic to get the desired outcome.

Um, that's the training we do. So call that whatever you want, okay? But that's necessary for any dog. If it's important to you that the dog listens, excuse me. 'Cause there is no other way, there is no other way to achieve truly reliable behavior in the face of distractions, in the face of triggers, in the face of new environments, in the face of fear, excitement, whatever it is, aggression, reactivity. There is no other way to achieve reliable behavior other than having a downside for non-compliance. It's a hundred percent necessary. Um, so it's not just for bad dogs or crazy dogs or aggressive dogs or that's just baloney.

And so I bring this up because I've absolutely had people, I've had people, well, I mean, there are lots of people out there that don't even explore this option because of, of that narrative, right? But there are people that start to explore it and, um, shy away from it, change their mind.

06:00 — Some owners cancel training because they believe their friendly dogs cannot handle its intensity.

We have people sign up and cancel because they'll say something like, this training is too intense for my dog. And the one thing I will say, you know, and they'll say it's because their dog is super friendly and loves everybody. So this training is, quote unquote, too intense for their dog. Okay? Well, we get lots of dogs in here that are real good dogs, that are real friendly dogs that are real lovable social dogs that are happy-go-lucky Labs or retrievers or whatever. Um, what does that mean that the training is too intense for the dog?

So one thing I will say is that it's a pretty thorough and polished program. Your dog learns to do lots of stuff that the average pet family might not care if their dog can do, right? So the scope of what we do might be slightly more than what you really need, right?

Maybe you don't care if you can take your dog to a public place and put them in a down and they'll hold it even when you walk away and there's strangers running around and there's kids on bikes and other dogs, maybe you don't care. Okay? Maybe you don't wanna make the investment for the training, especially if it's not in the budget, okay? But that means the training's too intense for you, not for your dog. So let's, let's get that clear right now. You know, it's one thing to say, I just don't care enough to do this level of training, okay?

But if you say to me, this training is too intense for my dog, what does that mean? What does that mean?

Does it mean your dog can't do it? Your dog isn't capable? Does it mean your dog can't handle it? Does it mean you just don't think dogs should have to listen because they're friendly? And again, like maybe you don't care that much if your dog really listens to you, okay? But then I kind of wonder why you're looking at training at all, right? Because most people, that is why they're looking for training. They want their dog to listen. <laugh> If you don't want your—let me, let me just put this out there. If you don't want your dog to listen to you, if you don't care if your dog listens to you, I'm not the person to call. <laugh> Don't, don't call me for training if you don't want your dog to listen to you.

Um, guys, the training isn't harsh. The training isn't, um, too intense. The training is just the training.

09:00 — Kati describes building behaviors with food or other positive reinforcement before overlaying the e-collar.

The training is just we teach your dog all these skills. We build up those behaviors. We use tons of food or positive reinforcement if the dog is motivated by any of that. And we overlay the e-collar too so that by the end of the program we can just ask your dog to do these things and they do it. And if they don't, you now have some recourse. You now have a way to motivate them. And when they're very fluent and they've had the practice, you now have a way to truly correct them for not listening so that the next time you don't have to struggle with it.

That's not too intense for any dog on the planet. I promise you. I can say that without a doubt there isn't a dog on the planet that that training is too intense for. It's fully adapted to the dog, guys. So the levels that I use vary a lot from dog to dog, right? The commands we teach them don't vary a ton. The field trips, the practice we give them doesn't vary a ton. We do sort of customize things a little bit. Like Birdie specifically needs practice around any kind of trigger that moves, whether it's dogs, squirrels, birds, those get her so stimulated and she fixates very, very hard and she's an excitable girl that can get driven up.

Um, so we will do more of that with Birdie. With Drexler, it's reactive dogs. That's the thing she needs work around. So we'll do more of that with Drexler, right?

But at the end of the day, and I, I would say with Kimber, um, some confidence building, just being out, getting the exposure around strangers, doing things that make her a little uncomfortable, getting up on things and going under things and just general confidence building and, and listening and prioritizing the handler in environments where there's a lot going on, 'cause it makes her a little anxious. Um, so they each have their individual needs, but the basic framework is the same. We teach them all these cool skills, we overlay the e-collar or then we just go out and we practice it, right?

And we, we start increasing accountability over time. We give the dog guidance when they need guidance and we do that for every dog. And that training is not too intense for any dog.

12:00 — Kati says she does not pressure owners into a program they do not want.

And so I wanna be really clear. Like if my program's not a good fit for somebody, that's fine. Like there's no judgment there, there's plenty of business to be had. I don't take it personally. It's fine. The last thing I wanna do is pressure someone into doing the training that doesn't wanna do it because they're not gonna get anything out of it anyway because they don't wanna do it. I don't wanna do that. But I'm not gonna let you get off the hook with saying it's too much for your dog because no, it's not. No, it's not.

Um, and I think the thing that's sad is I think they really do want what the training has to offer in those cases. I think they do want that end result, but because of all the narrative out there, they don't know that this is how you get there, right? They think they're gonna go to maybe a purely positive trainer who does private lessons or maybe they're even gonna go to like a box store, um, class at like a Petco or something like that. And I used to, it wasn't that long ago, guys, I was one of those folks.

I thought that was dog training until I went as an adult and bought a puppy and got that terrible Rottweiler <laugh>. I thought that was dog training.

I do not judge these people. Um, but I feel sad that they're missing out. You know? Um, it's a bummer to think that you can pay for those lessons and think that your dog is going to listen to you after, because I can tell you where they will land most likely if they have a dog that's at least a little bit food motivated. They will land with a dog that listens when there's nothing else going on, right? Because the dog will know the stuff and they'll enjoy doing it when there's food and there's not a lot else happening.

But when someone's coming up the driveway, when a girl's running across the road, when a kid's throwing a ball, when someone's coming at 'em with a bike, whatever it is, they're not gonna listen. And I know that <laugh>. And sure, some dogs will do better than others, right? The the dogs that are really soft, really submissive, really all those things, like those dogs are a lot easier. And sometimes just a firm tone of voice is enough for like proper punishment for those dogs. But those dogs are pretty rare.

And to be clear, a firm tone of voice, in my opinion, is still not a negative consequence, right? It's not tangible. It's a noise. And I also really don't like that to be used as a consequence because it's threatening. Here's the thing about our negative consequences: they're not threatening, right? So when we use negative consequences here, yeah, the dogs don't like it, right? That's why it works. They don't like it. It's uncomfortable, physically uncomfortable. They don't like it. But not for a second does the dog actually think they're in danger unless they walk through the door like that, right?

Unless that's the thing they were already dealing with. Um, then they feel that way all the time. But the consequences, like the stim that we use from an e-collar when a dog chooses to blow us off, I haven't had a dog yet that thinks they're in danger when that happens.

16:00 — Kati contrasts yelling with e-collar stimulation, describing stimulation as a consequence contingent on the…

But yelling at a dog, yeah, that's threatening, that's unstable, that's life-threatening to a dog. Sounds stupid because you're not a dog <laugh>, right? Um, but when I stim a dog, we're not fighting. There's just a consequence for that behavior and it's contingent on their behavior. They're in control of it, right? We're not fighting. I'm not attacking them. They know that. Dogs don't feel under attack just because you provide a negative consequence. But if you're in the habit of yelling at your dog, screaming at your dog, losing your patience with your dog, you guys are fighting.

And that's much scarier to a sensitive dog. Much scarier. So when someone says, "Oh, that training's too intense for my dog." No <laugh>, sorry, wrong. Uh, maybe it's too intense for you. Maybe you don't want this level of training, that's fine, but it's not too intense for your dog. So guys, even happy-go-lucky dogs, even friendly dogs, even dogs with no serious behavioral issues. It's like they still stand to benefit immensely from actual dog training.

Dog training isn't just about having a a good dog, right? A friendly dog. It's a, about building a connection with your dog where you can truly trust them. They're really reliable, they really listen to you even when the kid, the squirrel, the bike, the ball, whatever. 'Cause what we hear time and time and time and time again is, "My dog listens until…" "My dog's really good about coming back unless…" "She'll usually listen to me until another dog comes along or unless a car goes by, unless a bike…" Okay? But you either wanna fix that or you don't <laugh>, right?

So if you're fine with your dog listening, sometimes listening selectively, okay, that's not what we do, okay? We are serious about teaching dogs how to listen and how to prioritize their handler and then sending them home to build this entirely new connection and relationship with their owner. And it's incredible if the owner wants to do it. And that's why, uh, we go to so much trouble to make sure people understand exactly what we do. And I'm, you know, the last person that bailed on a program because they thought it was too much for their dog.

I'm grateful because there's really nothing worse than than someone signing up for the program that doesn't wanna do it, right? Because the outcome's the same either way. <laugh>, right? I don't wanna spend my time training your dog if you don't want them trained. I'm all set.

Keep the two to $3,000. I don't wanna do it. I love training dogs and I love even more doing the go-home lessons and the follow-ups and getting the updates and supporting people after the program and seeing what they're able to do with their dogs. I love that stuff. I don't love pouring so much time and energy into a dog for the person to go home and not just let things fall apart, but like actively like, feel bad about it. Like, they don't want it, they don't wanna do it, they don't like it. They try to avoid it, right?

20:00 — Kati acknowledges that owners make mistakes and can resume training after lapses.

We all have busy lives, we all have stuff going on. It's like we all make mistakes, we all get lazy sometimes. We're human.

Um, sometimes if you've got a lot going on, some people go right off the rails, right? But they can get back on, they can get back in the saddle. That's not so much an issue, right? But it's when the people go home and like the remote, the collar doesn't even go on the dog in the morning. They don't wanna do it. You know, they don't use the crate when the dog first goes home. They don't wanna do it. It's like, well, that sucks <laugh>. That sucks, right? It's like maybe they'll still get the stuff out of the training that was important to them, especially if they have an easy dog.

Like maybe they will, but I know they're never really gonna be where they wanna be because there's no way.

'Cause and the reason I know that, guys, is because everybody wants their dog to listen without the e-collar on, right? Well, if you don't like the e-collar, you're never gonna get there is, that's kind of the ironic thing about it, right? It's like you can't get away from the e-collar by avoiding it. <laugh>. I gotta teach the humans the same thing I teach the dogs <laugh>, which is like, when you feel the e-collar, like you can't run away from it. You can't avoid it. It's not going away. Unless you do the thing you don't wanna do, then it will go away, then it will shut off, right?

I gotta teach the humans the same thing.

The way you can stop using the e-collar is to put it on every day and use it meaningfully. And the next thing you know, your dog isn't gonna make you use it anymore, right? Doesn't mean ever. And we can talk about that too. But, um, and you know, you can take that concept though, and you can apply it to anything in life. It's like if you avoid it, it's not going away. But yeah, that's a real bummer, like when that happens. So I'm grateful when people can, um, establish before the program that, you know what, I don't wanna do this.

All right, cool.

But the training, I promise you, is not too much for your dog. It's not too intense for your dog. The training isn't for bad dogs. The training, put most simply, is it's for people that just want their dogs to listen to them. It's for people that wanna trust their dogs. It's for people that wanna bring their dogs everywhere. It's all those things. If you want those things, this is the training for you. And I'm not the only one that does it, although there aren't a lot of us out there. And I wanted to just stress too that not all e-collar trainers are the same, right?

23:00 — Kati warns that trainers using e-collars do not all follow the same methods.

Just because you find multiple trainers that use an e-collar, they do not all do things the same. We have had a lot of dogs come in here that are already e-collar trained, guys, and the owners are struggling and they're obviously people that care, 'cause they wouldn't be signing up for a second program somewhere else if they didn't.

And there's a couple of reasons for that. Number one, sometimes we get people in here that have done e-collar training before. The person got zero training, right? So the trainer basically promised that they were gonna take the dog, train the dog and then like some kind of magic, it would just stick with them forever. That's not how it works. And again, I used to think that, I used to be one of those people, I used to think, well, you train the dog, the dog's trained. No, that's not how it works. That means the dog knows what to do, right?

But someone has to require it. If nobody's requiring it, it will probably fall apart.

Now, whether or not it does and how quickly it happens depends a lot on the type of dog. It depends a little on the environment too. What kind of environment they live in. How soft are you in the rest of the day? How, you know what I mean? Are there rules? Are there any boundaries? These things all matter. There are so many factors. We get dogs in here that have been e-collar trained already and the people got zero training or they got like literally five minutes of training. I had one one time that told me the trainer where they got their dog trained was just, it was Friday and she was ready to leave.

Okay, well, there's no magic.

So here they are paying for a whole other program. So if you go to get your dog trained at one of these places, make sure you are getting trained as well on how to hold your dog accountable. How to motivate them, how to get the behaviors from them, especially in challenging situations, because that's the second piece, is sometimes people are trained, but they're not trained correctly. So we've had people come to us and be like, "Nope, this is the level we use and that's it." Okay, that's not gonna work. Okay? It's like a broken clock.

It might be right twice a day, and the rest of the time it's wrong.

I think it was a Lab that we had come here one time. Um, we see him now and again, and he comes for long boarding stints. I think, uh, Henry, great dog, um, and well-trained. And he had all his basics down, guys, when he came in. Um, but he didn't always do it because his owner came in with the remote. I, I think it was on like a 36, I can't remember. Um, don't quote me on that, but she never changed it. Well, well, if no one taught her to, why would she? She says, "Nope."

"This is the level the trainer had it on. This is the level we kept it on." And Henry is not a real sensitive dog. So 36, 36 to Henry would be motivating sometimes and just completely fly under the radar other times if he's excited. And so it wasn't working.

27:00 — Kati recounts spending three additional hours teaching an owner to adjust stimulation levels by…

So we had to spend another three hours with her showing her, "Hey, this is how you find the level. This is, watch the dog, this is what you do. Turn the dial, you watch what he's doing," right? And this is how you change behavior long term. This is how you make it stick. So we had to teach her all that. So you have to make sure you get your training, but also that it's the correct training, right? And it's like, well, how do I know if it's the correct training? Right? If I'm there to learn, how do I know they're teaching me the right stuff?

Well, you don't, but you're listening to this right now.

And I can tell you if they te—if they give you any numbers at all and they say never put it above this number or never put it below this number, or always leave it on this number, I can tell you that is wrong, <laugh>. That's just wrong. Okay? Yes, there's lots of different ways you can train with an e-collar, but at the end of the day, what I know to be true for all dogs is that things change not just from dog to dog, but with one individual dog. Things change depending on what is happening in the environment and what is happening in their head.

Sometimes they will be sensitive and sometimes they will not. That sensitivity level will absolutely change from time to time, and I promise you that. So if you're not adjusting with that, how can that possibly be correct? How can that possibly be the most effective thing to do? It can't. You have to adjust to the dog. But for that reason, because we do have so much ability to adjust our e-collar level, it's perfect for literally like any dog. It goes from one to a hundred, guys. I can't feel it until a 12. Drexler, who's here right now, works on a one, two, sometimes. That's pretty rare.

That's pretty rare. Sometimes she'll twitch and shake her head even on a one. That's rare. But I can tell you we see it more with huskies than probably any other breed <laugh>. So they're just so, so tense and intense and dramatic. Um, but it's very gentle, right? I don't feel it until at 12. So the people that are like, "Oh, my dog's nervous. Oh, my dog's sensitive. Oh, it's too much for my dog." No, it's not. Okay. But we have the ability to go to a hundred and for some dogs, we spend some time up there because they're not sensitive often.

Labs <laugh>. So, and again, I like to pick on breeds when we're talking about this stuff, but it could be any, any breed, right? There is no, uh, we've had sensitive Labs, we've had insensitive Labs, right? But I've just had a lot of them, um, that have higher numbers.

Bravo comes to mind. He works real high. Um, just is what it is, right? And so having a tool that you can adjust based on the dog is amazing. And you can be reassured that it's not too much for your dog, right? It's like a tap on the shoulder. If that's too much for your dog, mm, <laugh> I'd say that's a you problem, not a your dog problem, right? It's so gentle, guys. It is less than tapping your dog on the shoulder if you're honestly gonna look at me and say, "That's too much for your dog."

31:00 — Kati questions how avoiding uncomfortable experiences will help build a sensitive dog's confidence.

Like, I can't help you <laugh>. It's like, what? Huh? And by the way, even if it was, even if it was kind of too much for your dog, even if it was scary for your dog, what is your plan to help build your dog up? Because avoid, avoid, avoid will not do it. Wrapping your dog in bubble wrap, pretending they're made of glass, you will make your dog wither. You will make them worse. I promise you.

The way you normalize things, the way you get accustomed to things, the way you learn to tolerate things is to have to tolerate them, is to be around it, is to do it, is to experience it. Is to be in it. Not avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid, avoid. So some dogs, when they come in, the really intense dramatic ones, sometimes they're really jumpy at first with the e-collar, right? They're really dramatic, they're really jumpy. Um, they're like, oh my God, what's that? Oh my God, what's that? Well, it only takes a few days of using that communication method with them for them to really mellow out and be like, oh, I know what this is now.

Right? And then they're not jumping anymore, right? Because it's not that it hurt. The levels are too low at that point to hurt. It's not that it hurt, it's that they're really tense and nervy and jumpy and it's unfamiliar. It's foreign, right? So what do we do? We make it not foreign.

It just becomes part of our day. Now, this is how we communicate. We're gonna do this training. We're gonna build this line of communication. Birdie was like that. We're halfway through her program. Now she's just jump anymore. She knows exactly what to do. You can see she's able to think better. She's able to process better. She's more tuned into me. She's not surprised by it anymore. We don't have that anymore, right? But we didn't get there by going, oh, this is too much for her. That's not the dog. It's you <laugh>. Okay? But I also think like we've just lowered our standard for dogs in this country.

It's like, just because your dog is friendly doesn't mean they shouldn't behave. Doesn't mean they shouldn't listen. Come on, you super troopers, <laugh>, hold your dogs to a standard. People don't want your dogs jumping all over them. Even if they say it's okay, it's not okay, in my opinion.

Like, I, I wouldn't wanna go to your house if your dog was jumping all over me. There is nothing wrong. Stop feeling guilty for having standards for your dog just because your dog is a good dog, quote unquote, good, right? Just because they're friendly, just because they're social, just because they're lovable, do you still have standards for them, right? I have a great kid. I have standards for her. Still, that's not bad. That's not wrong. You're, you shouldn't feel guilty about that. You're not harming your dog in any way. You're not being mean. I've always said training is the best gift you can give your dog, guys.

It is going to do so much to improve your relationship and usually it makes their life bigger, better, and fuller too. Um, training isn't for bad dogs. Training is for dogs with great owners who want to be able to spend more time with their dogs and actually enjoying it. Hey guys, thanks for joining us today. I really hope you enjoyed the show. If there's a specific topic you'd like to hear discussed, you can send that to me directly via email or fan mail. Just jump down into the show notes. That information will be there for you.

I really look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for supporting the show and I look forward to next time.