Implement These 5 Principles And Have A Relationship With Your Dog That Everyone Is Jealous Of

00:00 — Kati Peppe opens Off Leash and Unfiltered and asks listeners to subscribe.

Welcome to Off Leash and Unfiltered. Trigger warning. I'm Kati Peppe, delivering the truth in dog training.

Hey everybody, this is your host, Kati Peppe. Before we jump in, I just wanted to take a quick second and remind you to hit the subscribe button because that helps us so, so, so much. We appreciate every subscribe and follow, and we have so much valuable information we wanna share with you. So we don't want you to miss an episode. Without further ado, let's jump in. Hey everybody, thanks for joining me today for another episode of Off Leash and Unfiltered. Uh, kind of a rainy, icky day today, but, um, it's all right. Something that a lot of people know about me is I actually love the rain.

Um, as long as it's not every day, so, but a rainy day here and there, I love it. Don't mind it at all. And once upon a time, I loved the rain so much, I looked into it, and there was a word for this. It is called a pluviophile, <laugh>.

So if you love the rain, you're a pluviophile. That's our interesting fact of the day. So today, um, we have a good one, but it's going to be somewhat brief because Kimber goes home today. And so I'm hoping to, um, get this one recorded and then go spend a little time working with Kimber, just working her through everything and warming her up a little bit. And we're excited for that. Um, and I think we, we got some good footage while Kimber was here. I think it's a great, uh, she's a great dog to use and is as an example, and put a new course together.

So I'm hoping to do that. I'm not gonna promise anything right now because I haven't really had time to sift through the footage and see if it's suitable, but we've been recording a ton with Kimber. Um, and she's such a great dog to use because she's one of those dogs that had a really long laundry list, like all these things, um, that she would do, you know, in her home environment with her owners, with her family.

And, um, I can't even hardly imagine her doing that stuff. I mean, I, I know she did. I totally believe them. And, and don't get me wrong, like I could see her doing it because, but only because of what I do, right? Thousands of dogs, like nothing surprises me. But she would never do those things with us in, in my house at the training center in, in this environment with these handlers. It just wouldn't happen. And so we get a lot of dogs like that, who, she's a sweet girl, um, and really, really smart, and she can be very well behaved, but she has to know there are boundaries.

03:00 — Kimber’s independent, pushy behavior illustrates why Kati emphasizes clear boundaries.

So she's one of those dogs that if you don't make it clear, if you don't provide the boundaries, she will run roughshod over you. Um, she has kind of a dominant, sort of independent type of personality.

She'll do her own thing and she'll be frantic and she'll push you around. And she also gets more nervous and anxious too. And if you do supply the clear rules, the clear boundaries, the clear path to walk, she's the most sweet, respectful, obedient. Um, she still has a little bit of an independent streak. She'll sometimes try to fight through <laugh> what you're asking her to do. She's still Kimber, um, but very, very responsive, very manageable. And she would never, she would never growl. She would never nip. She's way less anxious and nervous. Um, she wouldn't react on a walk or on a trail to men or other dogs.

She's great. Um, and so she's a really, really, um, good example, I think, of a dog that can be, um, a lot of dog, a lot to handle, somewhat out of control really. And then with the proper training, she's just an absolute delight.

So I'm excited for that. I hope we, uh, I hope we can put together a course with her, um, an e-collar training course. But anyway, onward and upward here. Let's talk about your relationship with your dog, which ties into actually what I was just talking about with Kimber, right? So everyone has this idea in their head that a good relationship with their dog means just feeding them lots of treats and being fun and showering them with love and affection, um, you know, playing with them, spoiling them, and no <laugh>. So when you do that with a dog, and I'm not saying you can't do any of those things, right?

But when that's the whole picture, when you really don't have a lot of boundaries, you really don't have a lot of rules, right? You might have them in your head, but they're not really enforced, uh, with like, tangible consequences, then all you have is that positive side, right?

You have all the fun, all the freedom, all the loves, all the affection, all the food, all, all, all the good stuff, right? The stuff that feels good, rather, but you don't really have the other side of the equation. You don't have real rules, real boundaries that are enforced with tangible consequences. You don't have a clear path for the dog to walk because nothing's really required, right? Everything's optional because you don't have any way to enforce it. Um, when you only have that one side, what you get is a dog, like I just described with Kimber.

And I'm not saying that they intentionally, like, spoiled her, right? But the thing is, when people come to us, even if they're trying to do that, they don't usually have the tools or the skills to do it, right? So if you don't have the tools or, you know, you think you're gonna hold your dog accountable, you think you're gonna have rules and boundaries, or you think you do, but the truth is, you don't actually have any way to do that.

'Cause without the knowledge, without the skill base, without the tools, it's, you're not, it's just not, you can't do it. You can't get it done, right? And so then you end up with a dog like we were describing, who's a bit much, who's a little extra, who's a little big for her britches, but also at the same time, who's nervous, who's anxious in certain contexts. Um, another dog, Rosie, comes to mind, um, if we had her a long time ago, but she was like a little shepherd mix of some kind. And she was so, she was the softest, sweetest dog, guys.

07:00 — Before training, Kimber jumped on her owner and tore clothing, preventing her owner from…

But before she came to us, she would be jumping up on her owner. She would be tearing her owner's clothes, like hanging onto them, tearing them. Her owner couldn't get, couldn't even get dressed, um, in the same room as the dog because of that.

Um, and she would do things like that. And if her owner tried to, like, verbally reprimand her, she would growl and, and kind of sass and talk back. Uh, right? So a good example again, of a dog that without proper rules, boundaries, consequences, expectations, all these things, um, she was just completely going off the rails. Um, dogs, just a lot of them, not all, but a lot of them, they just, they're frantic when they don't have that clear expectation. They don't have that clear path to walk. Um, and so this idea that the way you have a good relationship with your dog is just to show them that you're good, right?

That you're fun, that you're loving is wrong. So there's an element of that. I always say, you know, to build the best relationship with your dog, the things you really wanna implement are being fair, being safe, being clear, being firm and being fun. But notice fun is last. And that's not a coincidence, right? So the fun can come after you have those other things in place.

And that doesn't mean you can't play with your dog or have a good time before they're fully trained, but it means if you're prioritizing fun over these other things, you're in trouble, okay? The truth is, if you're prioritizing safe over all of these other things, you're in trouble. But safe is important. So let's talk about that a little bit because Kimber again is a good example of this. Um, Joyce had to leave me for a week or so, um, to deal with some family stuff. When she came back, Kimber was about two weeks into her program and they had worked together, but not very much.

Not very much at all. Um, and so Kimber really didn't know her, um, and didn't see her for a long time. Then Joyce came back and she's two thirds through her program and me working with Kimber. Kimber, she knew all the basics.

She was through her conditioning, she was on to noncompliance. Um, she was doing great, she was responsive. Um, but she does have that independent streak, so she'll try to fight through things, right? If you start turning that stim up, she'll still try to fight it, even though she knows what she's supposed to do with it. That's just in her nature. That's who she is. Um, Joyce comes in her first day back, starts working with Kimber. I've filled her in on all the dogs and kind of where they are, but there's always an element of having to feel out the dog and see what's going on.

10:00 — Kimber’s frightened response to Joyce’s e-collar use illustrates how knowing commands differs from feeling…

Um, and the first time that she experimented with her e-collar level, Kimber, terrified, terrified, terrifi—like trying to run away, spinning her wheels, freaking out. Um, even though she knows, guys, she knows the commands, she knows what they mean. She knows how to do the behaviors, she knows what the e-collar means, she knows what to do with the e-collar. And guess what? None of that mattered. It was like day one.

Um, and so Joyce had to obviously take a step back, lower those levels, lots of guidance, lots of praise, lots of encouragement, right? And then Kimber started to see, oh, this is the same. I'm gonna have the same relationship with that person that I do with Kati. She's fair, she's safe. I just have to do the things, right? So she had to take a step back and show her it was the same. That's really common. But so what does fair mean? Like if you're gonna be fair to your dog, what does that mean? Well, I talk a lot about how building behaviors and stopping behaviors are very, very different, okay?

So stopping behaviors is actually much easier. And I always say, so ironic, right? Because that's the thing everyone has the hardest time with. But it's actually the easiest thing to do in most cases.

Um, building behaviors is a little more difficult because you're expecting your dog to learn how to do something, to execute something. So if you think about it, not doing something is easier than doing something, right? Um, kind of a stupid example, but, but not baking cupcakes. If someone told me, don't bake cupcakes, well, okay, that's pretty easy, right? But if someone said, bake cupcakes, well, I have to know how to do that. Does that make sense? So stopping something is actually much, much easier than building a behavior, right? Because they're not expected to do anything when you're stopping a behavior.

So in order to be fair, you can't ask your dog to do something and go straight to accountability. That's not fair, guys. There's a a million things you gotta do before you get there.

You gotta teach them the word, you gotta teach them the behavior. You gotta link 'em together. If you're e-collar training, which of course we usually are, you have to teach them what the e-collar means in that context and what to do with it. You have to give them lots of guidance, lots of, um, help, whether that's with body language or the leash. Um, verbal encouragement. You have to practice in different environments before you really start holding them accountable. You start experimenting with the level that motivates them. You start experimenting with the level that cleans up the behavior.

13:00 — Kati recommends marking unwanted behavior with “no” before delivering a correction.

It's not fair to hold your dog accountable before you've done all that.

So that's first and foremost. Second of all, if you're gonna correct an unwanted behavior, even though it's easier, there's still a right and a wrong way to do it. So you should be using a marker like the word no. And that should predict the correction. Okay? And then not only is it helpful to the dog, 'cause it points out the moment that they did something bad, the moment that's going to get them corrected. It also helps you because it buys you time, right? So now you can have a delay. Now your dog can do something naughty and you say no.

And if you have to walk across the house to get the remote, you can and deliver the correction. And if you do that, it's fair because you've developed a language with the dog so they understand what's happening and why.

Okay? So a lot of people worry about that delay. And yeah, if you don't have a marker, if you don't say no, if your dog does something naughty and then you just blah, maybe you do a bunch of shouting, maybe you don't say anything, whatever, you go get your remote, you correct them. Is that fair? No, not necessarily, right? Because if that delay is a bit long and you didn't have an appropriate marker, then your dog doesn't necessarily know what that correction was for and won't necessarily ever figure that out. It's just kind of random, right?

So random corrections aren't fair, and I know it's not random, but from the dog's perspective, it is because you haven't developed a language that tells them that thing, that thing you just did, that's going to lead to a correction, even though it might take a minute. And that's fine, right? Because that language is in place.

So that's really what being fair means. Um, I'm not a big fan of the punishment fitting the crime. I think the level at which you correct your dog, the level at which you punish a behavior doesn't necessarily need to be proportional, um, to the degree of the crime. Okay? So what I mean by that is dog is threatening to bite somebody, right? Staring, growling, and you know, they've had issues in the past. Um, we might consider that, right? Or resource guarding or something like that. We might consider that, um, a big crime and deserves a big punishment.

And I don't disagree with that, I don't disagree with that. But I would say jumping up on somebody to lick their face also deserves a big punishment.

Getting up on the table to investigate the chicken dinner also deserves a big punishment. Why? 'Cause these are all things that we never want to see again. These are all things that we want to eliminate, right? So any behavior. So instead of thinking about it, like how dangerous is the behavior? How bad, how naughty is the behavior? How much liability does the behavior ca carry? And I mean, you can consider those things, that's fine, but in my mind it's do I want the behavior to go away or not, right? I always say if you want to put something to bed, put it to bed.

Um, otherwise, I mean, if you don't, you'll just be sticking around with it for however long, maybe forever, which I don't wanna do. And that's fair, guys. It, it's more fair than trying to find the level that's just enough. Because if you do that, you're again, you're probably gonna be doing it forever, right? You're gonna drag the process out. How is that fair? That's not fair. I'd rather draw a hard boundary with a big consequence, put it to bed, and not have to tell my dog not to do that anymore. And we're both happier after that.

I'm happier 'cause they're not doing it anymore. They're happier because now they just know where the boundary is. They know where the line is, they know what the expectation is and they just don't do it. And they know exactly why they were corrected because the language is in place.

18:00 — The safety principle involves dogs getting to know a person and learning that person…

That's a healthy relationship. That's fair. Okay? Safe. Well, we talked about Kimber and Joyce. Safe kind of comes naturally. Um, right? Your dog just has to get to know you and know that you're not gonna kill and eat them, right? And this is more true for some dogs than others. Some dogs could give a shit less. Other dogs are kind of leery. Like you get the kind of dog that's a little leery of strangers, they're gonna be more of a thing where it's like they have to know they can trust you. You're safe. You're not gonna kill and eat them.

That doesn't mean you don't correct them, guys, does not mean you can't correct them. But go back to the fair piece, right? If you're fair, the safety comes. They learn your language, they learn what your standards are, they learn what your expectations are, and they can see that you are fair and you are safe.

Now, if you're relying on yelling at your dog, you might not be able to get to the safe piece. So that's something people don't understand, is they're all worried about these stupid e-collar corrections. But those are some very unemotional—yes, dogs don't like it. Yes, they find it uncomfortable, but generally speaking, they don't find it scary, right? They find it unpleasant, not scary. You yelling at your dog—a lot of dogs find that scary. Unless you have a really confident dog, their nervous system interprets that as a real threat. Um, so we don't want that.

We don't wanna be yelling, we don't wanna be mad, we don't wanna be frustrated. Much, much better to just be fair and implement real tangible consequences, both positive and negative, real boundaries, real clear expectations, real consequences, um, that are predictable and understandable. Um, and we're not mad and we're not frustrated and we're not yelling.

So the dog feels safe, okay? Um, but if it's a new, if you have a new dog or a dog that's scared of people, a lot of times we see couples adopt dogs and the dog is really afraid of the man, right? The dog might just need to spend some time around you, first of all, to get accustomed to your presence and know you're not going to eat it <laugh>. But the best way, again, is not just trying to feed the dog treats. And guys, a lot of times in those cases, that's not gonna work.

21:00 — Kati recommends structured work to build fairness and safety rather than relying on cuddling,…

What will work is taking the reins and working with the dog the way we show you two to start building a relationship of fairness. And then the dog will see you as safe. It's counterintuitive, um, because people wanna snuggle, they wanna pet, um, they wanna touch, they wanna feed food too. And most of these nervous dogs don't wanna do any of that, including the food. Just start working with the dog and be fair. And that will take you to point B, which is safe. Okay? Point C is clear, being clear. So we talked about markers of indigo.

Markers are important to be clear, appropriate consequences are important to be clear, consistency is important to be clear. Okay? So having a marker that predicts a consequence, especially negative ones, is important because you don't want your dog walking around thinking, oh, sometimes, like, I just get struck by lightning when I'm walking around, right? They need to know what it is that causes it.

So that marker, the word no, predicts that. And, but, so then it's important that you actually do it, right? Once you say no, you have to follow through and do it. So, so many people won't, they'll find a reason not to, right? Especially if the dog backs off from whatever they were doing. They go, oh, well, now I don't need to do it. No. Yes, you do, because if you don't, you're not being clear, right? You've developed this language with the dog, so they know that no means the consequence is coming and then you stop doing it.

Well, what the fuck? That's not clear. Stick to the pattern. <laugh>. Be, be consistent. It's funny 'cause for all the talking people do about being consistent, they try really hard not to be.

And if you don't, if you say no and the dog stops doing the thing and then you don't follow through with that consequence, then they just go back to doing the thing every five minutes or every day or every week or whatever. So it never goes away. You see the difference. Whereas if you say no, the dog backs off from doing the thing and then you still follow through with the consequence, the behavior will actually go away. So you won't have to keep saying no, you won't have to keep addressing it. You won't have to keep watching for it.

The dog will stop doing the thing, which is supposed to be the goal. That's being clear, right? Providing an appropriate consequence after the no is also being clear, right? So your dog jumps on someone, you say no, and then you tap your e-collar at a six.

Guys, that's not a consequence. I don't care who your dog is, even if they do jump at a six, that's not a consequence for jumping. So think intolerable level, whatever that is for your dog. I'm not saying every dog, you have to jack that remote up to a hundred. That's not what I'm saying. Um, but I would much rather have you be quote unquote a little too high. Not that I think there's really a too high, right? 'Cause we're being clear and predictable, we're being fair and it's a behavior we want to go away. But I would much rather have you higher than you need to be.

Let's put it that way, than to have you too low, than to have you at just enough to interrupt the behavior, right? Because that's not enough to eliminate it, which is the goal. So that's clear. A real boundary. Hey, you're jumping on somebody. No, turn it way up. Here's a real correction, okay? Is it fun? No. Is it clear? Yes. So guys, doing the right thing isn't always supposed to feel good. Doing the right thing isn't always supposed to give you the warm fuzzies, okay? That's selfish.

25:00 — Kati calls for clear markers and meaningful positive and negative consequences.

Doing the right thing sometimes is hard and does not feel good. Be clear with your dog. Use your markers. Provide appropriate consequences, meaningful consequences, both positive and negative. Yes, you can reward your dog for things you like, sure, but you also have to very clearly correct them for things that you don't. If you don't do that, you are withholding information, you are being unclear. And that is not the right thing to do. That is not fair to your dog. Okay? And firm kind of ties into that. We want you to be firm. We don't want you to be a soft, squishy marshmallow.

That doesn't mean you need to be militant, okay? I've attained the nickname Militia Mama <laugh> from one of my clients, um, which is hilarious. And I don't know, I know I, uh, people think I'm like this real hardass. And I mean, I guess you could say that I am, but really I just stick to my guns.

Like I'm very clear, I'm very consistent. Um, but we have tons of fun with the dogs that are here. I share lots of moments with the dogs that are here. I bond with the dogs that are here. People want to think they're afraid of me. The only dogs that come through here that really aren't that interested in us, or they do fine with us, but then they go back with their owner, right? And then when they come back in, they're like, oh my God, I don't wanna be here. I don't wanna see that lady. The only dogs really that are like that are the assholes.

And there aren't that many of them. And by assholes I mean dogs, the only thing that brings them happiness is running roughshod over the humans. Like there are some dogs out there like that. We've had a few. It's not super common. Um, but there are dogs that the only way they enjoy life, the only way they're having a good time is to run the show. It's their world and you are in it. You are the servant and they do what they want and there's nothing you can do about it. That's the only way they have a good time.

And yes, we have had some of those dogs, but it's not common.

The dogs have a good time with us. Some of the dogs don't like to work, but they do it. And on the other end of that, they have the training under their belt. They get to have some freedom. They get to go on field trips. I posted a video yesterday, um, I think and one the day before of all three of the dogs that we have here right now, really enjoying their off-leash time. I take 'em over to the new property, they get to run off leash. They're sniffing around everywhere. They're chasing each other in circles, okay?

28:00 — Firmness means clarity, including when working with nervous dogs rather than defaulting to reassurance.

They get to do that because we've done the work. So yeah, we want you to be firm, especially if you have a nervous dog. Again, counterintuitive, right? Everybody wants to be soft and squishy and reassuring. Your dog doesn't need that. So when we say firm, it really means clear, but it also means confident.

Okay? We don't want you to ask your dog to sit, we want you to be clear. It's not "can you sit," it's "sit," right? But it also doesn't have to be "sit." So we get those folks too. Um, you don't have to yell at your dog. You don't have, you're not a drill sergeant <laugh>, it's not Police Academy. But you do have to give a clear instruction. We want you to be firm. Um, if your dog is nervous, we want you to be confident. We want you to exude confidence by being firm. Hey, we've been doing some confidence building with Kimber.

I took her to the park. We did some exercises with the bench there, going under the bench, jumping up on the bench, which by the way, she jumped up on it and fell down through the crack <laugh>. So stay tuned for that video. Um, but what, how you work your dog through that stuff is being firm, guys, and all the other stuff, being clear, being safe, being fair, right?

But that firmness, it's like, no, I know you're not comfortable going under the bench. I know you're might not be comfortable jumping up on this bench, but we're going to jump up on the bench, right? That's it. It's not negotiable. But I'm not mad. I'm not barking orders. I'm giving guidance. I'm, I'm working the dog through it. I'm not reassuring them. I'm not being a soft, squishy marshmallow. I'm being confident. I'm being firm and I'm working them through it. And guess what? Then it gets wicked easy, right? So that's confidence building that's helpful. Being soft and squishy, making it negotiable.

That's not helpful. That doesn't help your dog get stronger. Doesn't help your dog get better. If your dog is pushy, we want you to exude that you require respect. We want you to be firm, okay? If your dog is excitable, we want you to exude, um, that you have stringent boundaries about the expectation. We want you to be firm so you can see how it doesn't matter what kind of dog you have. Being firm is helpful, right? Now, firm doesn't mean mean, and it doesn't mean mad. It doesn't mean you're difficult, doesn't mean any of those things.

31:00 — Kati defines firmness as not wavering, distinguishing it from being pushy or bullying.

Doesn't mean you're pushy. Doesn't mean you're a bully.

It means you don't waver, right? So your dog can actually be grounded. Whereas if you're a marshmallow and everything's kind of squishy and soft, dogs get a little frantic sometimes, right? Or they get too big for their britches, they get pushier, they get more nervous, right? 'Cause everything's kind of wishy-washy. Firm, right? And firm and clear. There's a lot of overlap there. And they're both important. So if you've ever seen someone holding a leash with a dog that's doing their own thing, the dog will go to the end of the leash sniffing, um, or trying to pull toward another dog or air scenting, whatever they're doing, right?

And you'll see the person kind of move with them.

Passive leash handling. It's another episode, <laugh>, but it's not firm, right? It's very passive. It's very soft and squishy. Now, if you tether that dog to a tie-out, you know, a stake in the ground or an eye bolt in the side of the house, whatever it is, you, you put that dog on a tether and when they hit the end of it, that's the end. You can't push that boundary. It's a firm boundary. And the dogs figure that out and they know right where the boundary is. And I know that because I have a tether at home that I use sometimes.

And take a dog like Atlas, if you're familiar at all with Atlas, if you follow my stuff, you've probably seen him. 'Cause he's a frequent flyer, we call him. He's here all the time. But that dog is grade A nuts. He's a wonderful dog. Love him.

He's such a great personality, you guys. But man, is he a spaz attack. Very Cosmo Kramer-esque. Um, like on cocaine though, like he is, he's just nutso and he'll wait at the doors. He's very good. Like I don't have to tell him, like he knows he's been through the program and he comes to my house frequently and he knows the expectation, right? But when I tell him, all right, go ahead, you can go out the door. Boy, does he fly. He is a fur missile, a bullet. If I put him on a tether, guess what?

He doesn't hit the end of it. Why?

'Cause there's a firm boundary there and he knows it. There's also a clear consequence if he hits the end of it and he knows it. 'Cause he's gonna hit the end of it and do a somersault. And he did that once, never did it again. So that's just an example of your dog will make that adjustment if you're firm, right? So firm has overlap with being clear. It's like the combination of clear and consistent and meaningful, right? That's firm. It doesn't waver, it doesn't change, it doesn't squish, it doesn't move. You're firm. This is a boundary.

This is where the boundary is. This is what the boundary means.

35:00 — Fun is the final principle, built on fairness, safety, clarity, and firmness.

And lastly, fun. So yeah, if you're gonna build a good relationship with your dog, absolutely there should be an element of fun. Problem is people would prefer to just have that and none of this other stuff we've talked about. But if you implement all those other things we've just talked about, being fair, being safe, being clear, being firm, and then you add fun. Well, now you're cooking with gas. Now you have the best relationship with a dog a human can have, guys, because now you can take all that other stuff, right? You've done the training with your dog, now you can give them the freedom.

Now you can go off leash hopefully, right? Most dogs can. Um, but regardless, now you can throw the ball around. Now you can take them places. Now you can put them in the car and take them with you. Now you can play tug. Now you can wrestle on the whatever it is you do with your dog, whatever they love to do. Now you can do that stuff. And instead of your dog just being frantic or pushy, demanding or nervous, now it can be a more grounded experience where you and your dog get to enjoy each other's company and bond and actually have fun together.

Yeah, of course you should have fun with your dog. We don't talk about that a lot because we're talking about behavior. We're talking about training. We're talking about how to get the things you want. And what does everybody want? They wanna know how to stop the crappy things their dog is doing. They wanna get their dog to listen to them. Well, fun isn't really a part of that. The fun comes after you accomplish that. But yeah, that's, that's what's so golden about the training. Like you do it and then you actually get to have fun.

It's less management, it's less worry, it's more trust.

And then your dog gets to have experiences that they couldn't have before. You get to bond in a way that you couldn't do before. It's amazing. Um, so the last piece to that puzzle is fun, guys. Don't forget to have fun with your dogs. Um, but the thing is, you don't have to sacrifice the training to have the fun. The training should be what brings the fun, right? That is your path from point A to point B so that you can actually have fun with your dog. And I've talked about this before, but I'll just touch on it again real quick.

If you're playing with your dog, yeah, play with your dog, that's great. Let your hair down. I love that. Um, but structured play is always better than just frantic play, especially if you have a dog that is a little bit nuts out <laugh>, okay?

38:00 — Rules remain during play: dogs must still return when called and release toys when…

Um, meaning keep your rules and boundaries. Your dog still has to listen to you. Even when you're playing, even when you're having fun, whether you're off leash or you're playing ball or you're fetch or whatever, your dog still has to come back when you call them. Your dog still has to drop their toy when you tell them to. They can't just rip things outta your hand. If you reach for a stick, they can't reach for it at the same time and accidentally bite your hand, right? Keep your rules and boundaries. You don't just stop enforcing rules and boundaries because you're playing with your dog.

Guys, I had a customer once who insisted on, like, taking the e-collar off, um, sometimes during the day to give her dog a break, to give her dog free time.

No, you don't do that. That's a mistake. Who does that? Who, who says, alright, you have a, we're gonna give you a couple of hours now where everything is chaos. Do whatever you want. There's no rules. There's no boundaries, there's no—no. That's not how you do it, guys. The rules and boundaries stay all the time. And your dog can play. Your dog can have freedom. Your dog can go sniff around. Your dog can have a dog friend. Your dog can chase the ball. Whatever it is, you, you don't have to have. It's like there's this thing in people's head where, like, they have to have one or the other all the time.

No, the idea is it culminates, guys, in.

You get the full picture, you have it all. You have both. And I did an episode on that. I'll link it in the notes <laugh>. Um, but after you accomplish this thing with your dog where they know you're fair, they know you're safe, they know you're clear. They know you're firm, they know what your boundaries are, they trust you to enforce them and enforce them fairly, meaningfully, predictably. Have fun. Don't forget to have fun with your dogs. Hey guys, thanks for joining us today. I really hope you enjoyed the show. If there's a specific topic you'd like to hear discussed, you can send that to me directly via email or fan mail.

Just jump down into the show notes. That information will be there for you. I really look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for supporting the show and I look forward to next time.