How Does Age Factor Into Punishment In Dog Training?

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Welcome to Off Leash and Unfiltered. Trigger warning. I'm Kati Peppe, delivering the Truth in Dog Training.

Hey everybody, this is your host, Kati Peppe. Before we jump in, I just wanted to take a quick second and remind you to hit the subscribe button, because that helps us so, so, so much. We appreciate every subscribe and follow, and we have so much valuable information we wanna share with you. So we don't want you to miss an episode. Without further ado, let's jump in. Hey everyone, thanks for joining me for another episode of the Off Leash and Unfiltered podcast. Um, happy to be here. Hope y'all are having a great day today. Um, we're doing pretty good on this end of things.

Finally getting over my cold. I, I know I still sound a little, um, a little nasally and weird, so hopefully you can tolerate that <laugh>. Um, don't have many dogs right now, which is, is kind of weird feeling, but it's not a bad reprieve.

We've been loaded up here for a while. Um, October was just loaded with boarding dogs. Um, so as the trainees went home, we had a lot of regular boarders coming in, um, and they scheduled way back, you know, so I, so I didn't book board-and-trains during that time, really. So the board-and-train dogs have been winding down. The boarding dogs have been ramping up, but now they're all starting to go home. And so right now I just have Henry who's been with us now for about a month, um, and has another week left.

And, uh, Bella, who just came in for her training a few days ago, and she's doing phenomenal. Um, really sweet golden retriever, just super, super tuned out <laugh>, which is not uncommon. So I think she's gonna do great. Um, but so two dogs right now is kind of like a vacation for me.

Woo hoo. So let's get caught up on these podcast episodes so I can get back on a regular schedule, right? Somebody smack me. Um, yeah, that's what we're doing. So today, uh, I think I mentioned on the last episode, I really wanna talk about, um, age-related stuff, um, especially with puppies when we're talking about correcting unwanted behaviors. We're talking about using, um, punishment techniques. And, uh, it's a really common question. I mean, people have a lot of questions around that anyway, um, because there's so little information out there and so much false information out there.

And so it sounds scary and it feels scary, and people are scared of it, and especially when they have a puppy, they're scared of it. And I've done a lot of puppy episodes, and I, I'm sure I, I'm sure I talk about this topic on every puppy episode.

So go back and listen to those. Um, those are in the show notes on my previous episode. Um, so definitely go back and take a look at those. If, if you have puppy-related questions, those are some, some great material in there. And be sure to stay tuned until the end of the episode. A little bit later on toward the end of the show, we talk more about what things you should consider when it comes to punishment procedures, what sort of things about your dog you should consider besides just age-related stuff. So to punish or not to punish, um, great, uh, great piece of information there as well.

So stay tuned for that. Um, but yes, if you have a puppy, um, congratulations on your puppy. Now, here's the other thing we should mention is people will have a dog that's a year old and they're still calling it a puppy, or even 11 months old, and they're still calling it a puppy, okay?

04:00 — Kati defines “puppy” here as a dog under six months old, often much younger.

I think technically as a society, we consider 1-year-old to be the mark of crossing from puppyhood into adulthood. Um, but I wanna be very clear that when I say puppy, I mean under six months of age. And I'm usually even referring to dogs that are younger than that, right? So usually when we get a puppy, it's about eight weeks old from that time until your puppy is five or six months old. That's puppyhood, okay? It's not that they're not technically a puppy after that. Um, but we're not thinking in terms of puppy training techniques because they're mature enough at that point, um, to learn more than to do better, and to get more sophisticated with the training.

So when I say puppy, I'm absolutely talking about dogs under six months of age, and usually 2, 3, 4, maybe five months of age. Um, so puppies have bad behaviors, right?

I mean, that's pretty much all they have <laugh>, because they haven't learned anything yet, right? So they, they come out of the womb, they're born, um, they can't even open their eyes, and all they can really do is snuggle up to mom and eat. And, but you know, the thing about dogs is they have a shorter lifespan than us, right? And they mature much, much faster than us. So they develop extremely quickly. So it doesn't take long before the eyes open. And they're starting to take in more stimuli. They're starting to respond to that stimuli.

Um, they're, they're doing battle with their siblings, even from day one, right? There's a lot of like paws to the face, everybody trying to get to a teat. So the information's coming in, things are happening, the brain's developing, um, and they start to learn. Right? Now, there is a line somewhere. Puppies, when they're super, super young in their first weeks of life, are actually not neurologically developed enough to inhibit their behavior.

Meaning if there is a punishment procedure, even if it's accidental, right? Even if it's like their siblings doing something to them just on a spontaneous impulse, right? Like, let's say, or even just something by mistake, right? Like, let's say the puppy wanders a little too far away from mom and gets stepped on by a kid. There is a line somewhere age-wise, developmentally wise, where that will be a learning experience versus not a learning experience, right? So in one phase of life, it's just a stressful event, which still might serve a purpose. And so we'll talk about that. Still might be a benefit to it.

07:00 — An event that teaches a puppy later may happen too early for its brain…

Um, and in the next stage of life, which could just be a few days later, it's actually a punishing event where the puppy learns something from it, where the brain actually changes and says, it's not a good idea to come out here to this area, or when someone's walking by, or whatever the case may be, right? Because you never know what distinctions the brain is gonna make, which things in the environment it's gonna actually put a pin in, right? But my point just being that learning is happening, like there, the brain is picking up on things that are occurring at that moment and choosing to adjust for the future.

But there is a point at which it's too soon for that to happen. And the haziness comes in that there's no way to really be certain where that developmental line is. Now, I don't breed dogs. And maybe if I, I did, maybe if you talk to someone who, and this would have to be somebody who actually, uh, is an observer and is open-minded and doesn't have all their preconceived notions and beliefs that, you know what I mean? People don't like to challenge their own beliefs. Sometimes they're not. A lot of people aren't looking to actually know the truth.

They just wanna believe what they wanna believe, what they wanna believe, right? If you know someone who's an observer, uh, who's into science, who likes to learn, who wants to actually get to the truth of what describes reality, and, and they breed dogs, and they've been breeding dogs for years or decades, that person might have a pretty damn good idea where that developmental line is, at least for their dogs and their breed, right? I think the material I've read points to three, four weeks of age where this line happens. But I think that it can vary.

I think it can vary quite a bit. Um, but almost certainly by the time your puppy goes home, they should be eight weeks of age. Um, and that ability to learn and inhibit behavior, that should be there.

But my personal experience has been that a lot of puppies at eight weeks of age, they're actually not great yet at inhibiting behavior. It develops very quickly, though, very, so it doesn't mean the ability isn't there, you're just not good at it yet, okay? But I think most people aren't gonna be at home trying to punish their eight-week-old puppy anyway. And we generally don't. We generally don't because we don't need to. So talk about that, right? Because there's a lot of things you have to consider, but you bring home a puppy at eight weeks of age, number one, they're gonna be pretty small, so it's gonna be very manageable.

10:00 — Eight-week-old puppies are physically easy to manage and generally pose little risk of serious…

They're gonna be easy to physically manipulate and physically manage and just control, right? Because they're so little. The liability is also low. Like, if they actually have a bad behavior, if they actually, you know, bite or are aggressive in some way, like they're eight weeks old, they're probably tiny and they can't really do very much damage, right? So there's no liability there.

So we're not generally in a position where we have to punish an eight-week-old puppy. That being said, you don't wanna wait until your dog is a year old, right? So when do you do it? Is it, is it okay to do it now? Is it okay to do it later? When is the optimal time to do it? So let's talk about that, because I think that's a huge, huge point of, uh, haziness for a lot of folks. And here's what I, here's how I generally look at it. If I bring home a puppy that's seven to 10 weeks of age, I'm not gonna punish anything today.

Not going to. It's my first day with my new puppy. We're gonna use a shitload of management. The puppy's going to be on a leash, they are going to be in their kennel, or I'm going to be doing something with them directly, okay?

And all my other episodes talk about that. I'm not gonna harp on the structure piece, but it's important because at that age, your puppy doesn't know anything. They don't know anything about you. They don't know anything about your world. They don't know anything about what's allowed or what's not allowed. They haven't even been introduced to the concept. Most likely maybe they have of not allowed, okay? It's not even a thing. And so puppies in their crate, guys, all right, control everything. But I'm observing, right? So I wanna get to know my puppy and what they're like, and what their tendencies are, and what their personality is.

How confident are they? How forward are they? How pushy are they? Or how nervous are they? How sensitive are they? How soft are they? How responsive are they?

13:00 — She observes whether a new puppy is sensitive or nervy before deciding what it…

So I'm getting an idea who my puppy is, and I'm shaping a plan, not a specific drawn-up plan, but just an informal idea of what things are gonna look like moving forward with my puppy. What are they gonna require from me? Are they real soft and sensitive and kind of nervy? Are they emotional? If they hear someone raise their voice, do they get a little shaken by that? Or say, Ooh, I don't like that, right? If I give 'em a little poke, are they, are they sensitive to that? Or do they think it's a game and they wanna play?

Do they come after me, right? Those are two different dogs. So I'm just getting to know my puppy, but I'm not gonna take long to start going after the things that I think are important, and again, I've said this in previous episodes, but the thing that I think is important is how they interact with humans. Because guys, that's everything, right? That's your relationship with your dog, how they interact with you and how you interact with them. That's the big thing, right? Puppies, chewing shoes, getting into trash, peeing on the floor. Don't give a shit about any of that, because that's all your fault.

I'm not paying any mind to any of that because the puppy shouldn't be able to get into stuff or chew stuff because they're, they're in their kennel. <laugh> It's like magic. Um, you know, peeing on the floor, same thing. It's like they shouldn't even have the chance. Yeah, there might be an accident here and there, but for the most part, the puppy's in their kennel, they're, they're just not, they're not having accidents in the house, right? Because you take 'em outta their kennel, you go outside, they potty. Then if you wanna bring them back inside, especially if it's winter here in Maine, you bring them back inside, you train with them, you play with them.

Maybe they have another accident while you're playing with them, but you really shouldn't be doing that, not when they're real young, for more than 20 minutes, like tops. Then it's back outside again and into the kennel, right? But when I say frequent potty breaks, at that age, it's 20 minutes. Now, that'll stretch out quickly as the puppy gets older because they develop really, really fast. All right?

But I'm going to go after the things that matter. And that is how the puppy interacts with me. Now, as I've been spending a few days getting to know my puppy, right? If I observe my puppy and I go, wow, this is a really confident, really forward, really pushy puppy. They're eight or nine weeks of age, they're already growling over resources. If I give 'em a poke, they come at me, they're talking back to me, okay, I'm gonna handle that puppy a little differently than the puppy that's real soft and respectful. Doesn't like it when people raise their voice, backs off when I give them a poke.

16:00 — Two equally small puppies may develop into very different dogs and need different levels…

Those are two different dogs, guys. Yeah, they're real tiny. They both look the same right now, right? They're real small, they look fragile, super cute, super innocent, but they're going to develop quickly. And those are two very different dogs.

Okay? I'm gonna address the same things, but I'm gonna be a lot firmer with the one that needs it. Because if I don't, then they're going to develop very quickly into a bigger dog with a lack of respect for humans. And now that dog's gonna pay the price, right? They're the ones that are gonna pay the price. So we're not gonna let that happen. We're gonna draw boundaries with both dogs and we're going to listen to the dog as far as what works. So when I say I'm gonna go after the things that matter to me and what matters to me is how they interact with humans.

I mean, after I spend a few days getting to know my puppy, a few days, a week, it kind of depends on how old they are too. So if you bring a puppy home and they're seven or eight, eight weeks old, well, maybe you've got a week or two before it matters much, right?

But if you bring 'em home and they're already 10, 11, 12, 13 weeks old, I wouldn't spend too long in the just observing phase, okay? Maybe a couple days. <laugh> You can start drawing some boundaries. Now, when I say drawing boundaries, that might be as simple as using my leash and just doing some somewhat firm leash handling to teach the puppy. You can't jump all over me. You can't just get into my space whenever you want. It might be a little bump with my arm, my wrist, right? I don't like to use my fingers, especially 'cause people tend to be very soft with their fingers, right?

So it's more like they're petting the puppy and they're pushing the puppy, which the puppy will push back against. When we're drawing boundaries, it's important to be firmer and not be coming across as soft and affectionate. Just because you're pushing the dog away, that doesn't mean anything to the dog. Most dogs, when you put physical pressure on them like that, they're just gonna push against it. You would too. If someone came up and put their hand on your chest or your upper back and they pushed, you're gonna push against it, that's normal.

19:00 — For a boundary, Kati describes a firm bump rather than hitting or kicking the…

You wanna draw a boundary with your puppy, you wanna be a little firmer. I think it should be more of a bump than a push, right? So I'm not saying hit or kick. Bump, right? It's like a firm tap that will kind of just push the puppy off you and get a few inches of space. But that sends a message. It says, this is my space right now. I don't want you in it, even if you do want them in it all the time, right? 'cause you get this nice, new cuddly puppy. It's like, I know, and you can do that.

But you have to balance it with, hey, this is a boundary right now. Right? And so if you're not good at the poking and the bumping, then at least use your leash, leash pressure up and away and down, right? Pop, pop, pop, even little leash pops to get the puppy to stop advancing into your space, right? And that doesn't mean you're holding the leash away from you while the puppy strains against it to get back in your lap. You do those pops away from you until the puppy accepts: I cannot move into this person's space right now.

Right? So your leash should be able to go back to being loose.

And if you're struggling with that, it is probably because you're not being firm enough. So it doesn't really matter how you do it, but you have to set a boundary. You have to be, this is great practice for the human. You have to be able to communicate to your puppy: I don't want you in my space right now. Right? And be able to achieve that without holding the puppy back or putting them away. And not that either of those things are bad to do, but this is about the, the human learning how to communicate to the puppy that you have a boundary, right?

Because if you're just holding the leash and the puppy is spinning their wheels trying to get into your lap, trying to climb up in your business, then you have not successfully set a boundary, right? You're just managing them. You're just holding them back.

So whether it's leash pressure, leash pops, bumping with the arm and the wrist, or firm fingers and a little poke, you set that boundary. You can't come into my lap and be up in my space right now. Why? It doesn't have to be a reason because I said so, right? That's the point. So invading space all the time is probably the biggest mistake people make with puppies. Of course, it's fine to cuddle with your puppy, of course it's fine to show them affection, but it's also necessary, like I said, to balance that with sometimes I don't, sometimes I'm gonna draw.

I'm not gonna say sometimes I don't want you in my space because I think that's incorrect for some people. They always want the puppy in their space. But it's important to do this exercise, even if you want the puppy in your space, <laugh>. So the point is, sometimes I'm going to set a boundary with my space. And you can't come into it sometimes to learn how to communicate that. That's a very, very valuable skill.

Um, obviously one of the next most common issues that people will report is puppy nipping and mouthing on them, chewing on them like they're a toy. Um, that needs to be dealt with for obvious reasons right away. And the most common advice out there is to give the puppy something else to chew on. And that is a mistake. Yes, you can give your puppy other things to chew on, but not in that moment while they're chewing on you. And again, what kind of dog do you have? Is this a dog that you're just cuddling with and things are fine and then all of a sudden they're like, oh, that's, that feels good on my teeth and gums.

23:00 — She distinguishes exploratory mouthing that grows harder from a puppy treating a person like…

I'm gonna chew on your shirt and now I'm kind of chewing on your thumb. And oh, now my chewing is starting to get a little harder 'cause I'm a week older and a more developed. It's like, okay, well that's one thing.

Or is it a dog that just sees you as their toy, you know, and they're play growling and they're tearing at your shirt. Are you the prey? Because I have people come in here with young puppies, guys, and they've got bruises and scratches all up and down their arm. And if they try to tell the puppy no, right? The people will say no, really firmly. And they'll kind of point the finger at the puppy. No, no bite, right? And that puppy come right at him, talk right back to him. Okay? You got two different dogs here.

So thinking we treat every puppy exactly the same. No, the principles are the same. Different puppies need different things, though. They both need the conversation. The conversation just might look a little different, 'cause you're going to need to be a lot firmer with one of those puppies than the other. All right? Now as they get older, that's less of a thing. Um, because generally speaking then you have a wider array of tools available to you. And it's just a lot easier, um, to inhibit behaviors. And across the board, if we wanna inhibit behaviors, we just use a high intensity and we just do that, right?

But at this stage, you are developing a relationship with your puppy and it's in its very earliest stages. And so just as much as your puppy is learning to respect you and respect the rules, they're also learning that you're safe. Now, that doesn't mean don't punish your puppy, it does not mean that, right? But that's part of the reason we spend some time getting to know our puppy.

They are learn, they are learning at this stage that we are safe. And hopefully by the time your puppy comes home, they've spent some time around humans. And so they already kind of know that, right? But we do want your puppy to see that you're a safe person, you're trustworthy, you feed them, you take care of them. You give, share affection. We want them to see those things. Here's the problem with older dogs, guys, and why I talk about that a lot less. 'Cause they've already had 1, 2, 3, 4 years seeing that. Most dogs, by the time I see them, they've already spent a year or more getting affection, getting exercise, getting treats, getting love, having fun, being excited.

<laugh>, they, they already know. They already know that piece very, very well. Your puppy doesn't even have that. They have nothing, right? When they're born, they have no experience whatsoever, and they need both.

So yeah, when I bring home a new puppy, I want them to get some time experiencing me as a positive thing in their life. I share affection, I share food. I show up every morning to take you outside. All these things. We have fun, we play, I become all those things to my puppy. But I'm not gonna wait until they're an adult to draw a boundary. We're gonna slowly introduce the puppy. Yeah, I'm a fun person. I'm a loving person. But we're gonna slowly introduce, hey, this is a boundary. That's a boundary, okay? And the reason we use so much management is so that we don't have to punish, punish, punish, punish, punish constantly or develop really bad habits, which is the only other option, right?

27:00 — Structure and management prevent unwanted behavior while Kati builds a relationship through affection.

Management prevents both of those things. So while I'm building a relationship with my puppy, while I'm sharing lots of love and affection, we're also using lots of structure and management, which is important. And we're slowly at whatever pace, right? Depends on the dog, depends on their personality, depends on their behaviors.

Some puppies are super easy. Hardly have any behaviors that need to be addressed. Most puppies have some, and then some puppies have a lot <laugh>. But we're gonna work our way through setting these boundaries and punishing behaviors at a pace that makes sense for that puppy, and the pushier and more forward and confident and demanding that puppy is, probably the faster we're gonna work through those things, right? We're gonna go after them a little more intensely than we might with a puppy that's a lot more laid back, a lot more submissive, a lot more soft, softer emotionally, a lot more, more responsive to boundary setting.

It's not as urgent with that puppy. And they're just easier, it's easier to draw a boundary, right? So we take these things into account, but at the end of the day, no puppy is allowed to chew on me. And that's something we go after usually pretty quickly. And my preferred method of dealing with that is saying no. And then after you say no, curling those little lips right around their teeth and squeezing how hard? Hard enough to make them vocalize.

Yep. If you bite me, I bite you back. Well, you bite yourself back. <laugh>. That's my preferred method with young puppies. Usually that's like puppies that are under like four months of age, but it kind of depends on how big they are. Um, toy breeds, you could probably do that right up until six months of age or so, right? And generally after that, or e-collar training anyway. Um, but your other option would be, uh, a bonker or at least a firm poke to the ribs, right? Two fingers, firm poke. Uh, a lot of puppies are very responsive to that.

But you have to do it correctly. Most people don't do the poke correctly. They don't bonk correctly because it's always the same problem, guys. People are too soft. So we don't want you to harm your puppy, right? We're not gonna hurt the puppy.

So yes, there's some element of common sense. Like if you're like Andre the Giant and you're manhandling everything and you don't know your own strength, maybe that's not for you. Um, but most people, the vast majority of people, it's the opposite problem, right? They're very soft. They don't poke, they don't firmly poke. Their fingers are very soft and they push, right? Well, that's nothing, right? Or they take the bonker, which is a rolled-up cotton towel, or for a puppy it might just be like a, um, hand towel. And you're supposed to give a, a firm pop on the head, firm enough that the puppy goes, oh, that was startling.

31:00 — She judges whether a correction was firm enough by watching the individual puppy’s response.

I didn't like that. Right? But most people, puppy's like, what are we doing? We playing, playing tug? Yeah, let's do it. <laugh>. Okay, so how firm? I don't know. Watch your puppy. What's their response? You need to know your puppy. I don't know your puppy, but most people are much too soft. And the mistake they make then is then they try to be a little firmer and then a little firmer and not a little firmer. And that's a mistake with any tool because all you're doing is desensitizing your dog to it and you're not changing their behavior.

So punishment, guys, is meant to be meaningful the first time.

That's how it works, right? It's meaningful. That's why the behavior changes. So if it's not meaningful enough, then the behavior does not change and you have to keep doing it. That is the opposite of what we want. That is backwards. The idea is you do it right the first time, right? And that doesn't mean you won't have to do it again. You might have to do it two or three times, right? But then the behavior goes away. The behavior changes, that's dramatically reduced and eventually eliminated, right? And so then you're having to use this punishment procedure less and less and less and less.

So what we want is a really quick shift. You've got behavior, you've got punishment, and you want a really quick shift where the behavior goes down because the punishment went up. But then the behavior stays down and the punishment comes down, right? Because it's self, self-terminating. You don't need it if the behavior is gone, right? So when we bonk a puppy or an older dog or any dog, the idea is we do it right the first time. It's meaningful. We want it to be something impactful and meaningful that we don't have to turn around and do again in 10 minutes.

We don't have to do it again later today or tomorrow. Maybe we don't have to do it again, ever, right? Ideally.

But again, that depends on the type of puppy you have. The more forward they are, the more confident they are, the more snotty they are. I'm sorry, but some, some dogs are born a little snotty. The more you might have to do it and the firmer it might need to be. And if you fail at those things, then you end up doing it over and over and over and over again. And for no good reason. And we're gonna talk about that a little more, um, later in the episode, right? But there's no point in that.

Now your dog is just becoming this random thing that happens. And it doesn't change their behavior, it doesn't mean anything.

But who wants to live that way? Not me. So I'm gonna make it count when I do it because I want the behavior to go away and I want the bonking to go away too. I don't want to have to do that, right? But whatever method you use just has to work. You have to find a way. Again, this is about you. So your puppy's gonna feel out all the boundaries with you, right? And you need to feel out what are the things that are meaningful to my puppy? What does my puppy care about? What are they motivated by?

Both positive and negative. 'Cause we get puppies in here sometimes that aren't food motivated either. So you need to, you need to spend a little bit of time learning. What does my puppy care about? What do they want? What perks them up? What gets the wheels turning where I can see, oh, they want what I have: toys, cheese, meat. Maybe it's just their kibble. Some puppies are super food motivated for their own kibble. That's great, that's fantastic, but it's not the case for everyone. Bacon.

35:00 — She considers what motivates a puppy, including affection, and how it responds to a…

Affection. Some puppies love, love, love affection almost more than anything. What does my puppy not like? What do they really wanna avoid? How does my puppy feel if I use a firm tone of voice? And by the way, that's not generally a big go-to for us, but there are times that it's appropriate. And there are times that I use a firmer voice, a firmer tone, right? How does my puppy respond if I use a firmer tone? How does my puppy respond if I give them a poke? If I give them a bump? How does my puppy respond if I pop their leash or bonk them with a bonker?

What kind of puppy do I have? How is it best for me to motivate my puppy both to do things and not to do things? But generally speaking, we're gonna start doing this stuff pretty much right away, right? If my puppy's really young, seven or eight weeks of age, I'm gonna spend a good amount of time just using management and spending time with my puppy and not really worrying about much. I'm gonna be observing what they care about. I'm gonna start teaching some basic obedience and conditioning them to a clicker, right? And that gives me a chance to see how much are they into their food?

Do I need to use something else? What else should I use? What do they like? What do they want? What perks them up the most? What are my puppy's habits? What's their personality type, right? But as that puppy moves into like nine, 10 weeks of age, if they're putting their mouth on me, we're gonna go after that right away. That's a number one.

We're going to use a punishment technique to eliminate putting their mouth on me. And sure, if you wanna give your puppy other stuff to chew on afterwards, great, go ahead. But you can't skip that conversational piece that says you can't put your mouth on me, right? And then at the same time, we're also starting to set boundaries about space. Occasionally, I'm gonna tell my puppy, hey, you can't climb into my space right now. And that's just, that's not punishing a bad behavior, guys. That's just teaching your puppy that you're actually somebody who sets boundaries. You're actually worthy of respect.

That's simply you shaping your puppy's perception of you. Because otherwise, their perception of you is that you are nothing but softness and affection. You are a doormat. You are not somebody who has standards or boundaries or who's gonna set standards for them or have expectations at all, right? So not everything is about punishing bad behavior. It's, it's just about shaping your puppy's perception. Like, yes, I am fun, I am lovable, I am affectionate. And I also can set boundaries.

Now as this puppy moves past 10, 11, 12 weeks of age, now they're well within the developmental stage of being able to fully inhibit behaviors, right? And that doesn't mean we're just gonna unleash the torrent of punishment. That's not what we do. We're still using tons of management, right? But now, like if your puppy is jumping on on folks, we're gonna, we're gonna correct that. Um, puppy's not settling in their crate. Like we're gonna try to correct that. So we start increasing our, um, level of expectation and the things we go after. Puppy gets to be four, five months of age.

Now we're definitely in well into the territory where it's like, don't pull me on a leash. I'm gonna correct you if you pull me on a leash, right? And prior to that, maybe we did lots of food exercises on the leash. Great.

40:00 — Around four months, she typically introduces a prong collar and teaches leash pressure to…

I don't worry a ton about leash walking when the puppy is two, three months of age, doesn't matter. Puppy gets to be four months of age. Don't pull me. We usually introduce them to a prong collar. We teach them about leash pressure, leash pops, and right away we can set a boundary. Don't pull me. It's really easy. Puppy gets into like five months of age. Now maybe we're talking about, oh, don't chew the chair, right? Maybe we start to have the puppy outta their crate a little bit more, still supervising, not all the time, short periods, puppies investigating the chair legs or whatever it is.

They like to chew on a shoe, the rug. And we're gonna correct them for that. So you can see over time, we start with how you interact with us, you know, and how you interact with other people, and then general behavior stuff. And as they get older, it branches out and it becomes more and more encompassing.

That's the way I do it. Doesn't mean it's the only way to do it, but like I said, when your puppy is a young puppy, they know nothing yet. They know nothing of you or your world or living in a human world. And so you do have to spend some time showing the puppy the good side of you and getting to know your puppy. But then you need to start in right away with setting boundaries and then correcting behaviors that are antisocial, right? You can't have, it's not functional to have a dog that bites you.

So if your puppy's putting their mouth on you, we go after that one right away.

And then as your puppy gets older, you slowly start giving them opportunities to make other mistakes. So you can have those conversations, right? But we're gonna do it all when they're 10 weeks of age. Guys, go after the important things. But you can teach your puppy to respect you in other ways too. Like I said, just setting boundaries, using your leash, using your structure, not always letting the puppy in your space, those simple, simple things. Teach your puppy that you're not just a doormat, even though you can still do all the fun stuff, you can still do the petting and the treats and the play and the snuggling, right?

But it's balanced with, hey, you're not free. We use structure. I'm gonna have a leash on you. I'm gonna have you go through this routine at the door. I'm gonna have you go through this routine at feeding time. I'm not gonna let you climb in my space a hundred percent of the time that you want to.

43:00 — As a puppy matures, she adds consequences for ignored boundaries, with timing and intensity…

And as the puppy gets older, I start to impose consequences if they don't respect those boundaries, and how quickly and how intense those consequences are depend on the puppy. Which is why it's so hard for me to just answer that question sometimes. It's because I don't know your puppy. How old are they? How long have you had them? And what kind of puppy are they? And I think that's tough sometimes for the average person too, to judge what kind of puppy they have. Because to most people, a puppy is a puppy. But trust me, they are not.

You can have a soft, sensitive, kind of respectful, submissive puppy and you can have a very forward, confident, pushy, demanding, snotty puppy. And they look very different by the time they're a year old <laugh>, right? But I can see it when they're young, young. And it's like, the other thing I, I should have mentioned earlier is like if you bring home an eight, nine week old puppy, guys, and they're kind of biting you and you try to disagree with that, and they come at you harder, maybe you have the wrong dog. Okay? Something to think about.

Um, because that's not super typical at that age, and it indicates you have a very strong-willed puppy who's going to need a firm handler probably for the rest of their life. Doesn't mean it's going to be bad, right? It's going, if you're a softie, your dog's gonna know that and you're gonna struggle.

So if you're not the type of person who wants to run a tight ship, who wants to, um, give that feedback to their dogs as needed in a meaningful way for the rest of their life, then maybe you've got the wrong dog. And better to rectify that now than eight months down the road, or a year down the road, or a year and a half down the road or whatever. Uh, so just something else to think about. So some of the other things besides age, guys, well, and just as much as on the young side, we have the old side too, right?

Sometimes I'll have people come in here with a dog they're training and they say, well, our other dog has these awful behaviors, you know, but he's 15 years old and he is blind in both eyes and he can hear outta one ear, <laugh>, whatever.

Uh, he's got three legs, you know, dog's a mess, right? A senior, um, he doesn't have long left, whatever. It's like, okay, well let's use our common sense here. So yeah, I am a huge advocate for using an appropriate punishment procedure to stop behaviors. Um, but it's like the things we consider are age. So if your dog doesn't have long left to live, maybe it's wisest to just use management. And you know what? That's okay. Use management, be responsible. And you know, if you have a dog that might hurt somebody, you obviously <laugh>, you need to be more careful, but you've been living with it for 15 years, presumably.

So, um, yeah, don't feel like you have to punish a behavior if it's not going to make everybody's life better, right? So it can be harder with a dog that's older who is lacking some of their senses because you, it's harder to mark a behavior if your dog can't hear. It's harder to have the startling effect of a bonker, which is a projectile, if your dog can't see. It's really hard if they don't have either one <laugh>. Um, and so the thing about using punishment, guys, is it's, it's necessary to inhibit behaviors. Um, but if it doesn't achieve the goal, then it's pointless.

47:00 — For an older dog with sensory limitations, she may choose kennels, leashes, or gates…

So if your dog is too old and has too many things wrong with him to, for you to be effective with a punishment procedure, then don't do it. Manage the dog. Use a kennel, use a leash. Use gates. I will say for dogs that are lacking in the vision or hearing department, an e-collar can still be amazing. Um, and you can use vibrate as a marker for dogs that can't hear well. Okay? So, um, there are ways, right? But if you feel like your dog is lucky to have like a hundred more days <laugh> on planet Earth, then just keep managing them. Do, you know, do what you have to do.

Um, but besides age, the things we should consider before using punishment techniques are: what is the dog's level of li- Like, what is the level of liability here, right? So the level of liability with a Doberman is higher than it is with a Chihuahua.

So that's something we should consider. Now, I'm not saying don't punish a Chihuahua. We just said Tiki here. He knows what a correction is. But what I'm saying is that is a factor, right? It's necessary for both dogs, right? If you wanna stop a behavior, one dog isn't different from the other. It's correction is needed, but it's going to be way more important with a Doberman most likely, right? If we're talking about a behavior where someone could get hurt either accidentally or intentionally, someone could get knocked down, or if someone could get bit, right, it's gonna look a lot different with a Dobie than it does with a Chihuahua.

So level of liability is something to consider. And again, I do not want this to be construed as you shouldn't punish a small dog. Never said that, never will.

More, what I'm saying is from a liability perspective, if you let a big dog get away with that stuff and you don't do your part, you're gonna end up paying a very high price the second, 'cause management fails, guys. Excuse me. So liability is always a factor in like, how urgent is this <laugh>, um, the dog's ability to modify their behavior, right? So age might be part of that. Again, uh, having senses lacking might be part of that. Being, you know, neurologically not developed enough might be part of that. Just the dog not being wired right might be part of that.

50:00 — Early practice changing behavior can help a dog respond to corrections as it grows…

We've had those dogs. They're extremely rare. They're out there. But guys, modifying behavior is a skill. And so if you start that really early with your puppy, they are better at it as they get older, right? So if my dog suddenly does something I don't like, I can get him to change that right now, no problem, right?

Because he's had to do it since I got him at like 10 months of age. I have asked him to modify behaviors continually since I got him. He's not new to it and he understands it. He understands that sometimes he does something, I don't like it, I punish it, and he stops doing it. If you have a dog that doesn't have that kind of practice, it's harder. If you get a dog that's five years old and you suddenly ask them not to do something anymore, it's gonna be more difficult. Meaning you might have to, uh, deliver the punishment procedure more than once.

And it might need to be something more intense to be effective because that dog has no rehearsal with modifying their behavior. But some dogs, they're just not equipped with the wiring to do it. Now, that's very rare, okay? But it does happen, and we've had a couple of them. I estimate it to be, take this with a grain of salt, right? 'Cause even, even though I've trained a ton of dogs, it's still a small sample all things considered. Um, I estimate it to be about one in 500. We call them one percenters, but it's actually much less than that.

<laugh> On average, one in 500 dogs.

It's an impossibility to really get them to modify their behavior the way we want them to. So, but my point being, if you punish a behavior or try to, right? Let's say your dog wears an e-collar and they have this behavior, they probably have lots of behaviors if they're this kind of dog. But let's just say that, you know, reacting to people outside, okay? And you corrected it at a 30 and it just didn't do anything. And so the next time around you did a 60, it just didn't do anything. So the next time you made sure you held the button down for a few seconds, it didn't do anything, right?

And so you're at the top of the dial now and you're holding the button down for five seconds and it didn't work, right? Or it worked in the moment, but they did it again later, right? And you did it a few times and it's just not, it'll interrupt it, but it just keeps happening, keeps happening, and you're not seeing improvement, you're not seeing a decrease, you're not seeing the inhibition develop. Okay, well we're probably gonna stop doing that then.

53:00 — If a technique repeatedly fails to change behavior, she says to stop and reassess…

If your dog hasn't demonstrated the ability to modify behavior, that's important to know. If your dog maybe has demonstrated the ability to modify behavior, but they're telling you this thing you're doing isn't working, then it isn't working and we're not gonna keep doing it. Now, most of the time people just don't dare to be firmer. They don't dare to be more intense. They don't dare to bonk firmly. They don't dare to pop the leash firmly. They don't dare to turn up the e-collar, okay? That's not your dog telling you that they don't have the ability.

That's you telling you that you are a puss <laugh>.

So that's not what I'm talking about. But I'm talking about if you're watching the dog and you're adjusting your intensity appropriately because they're not responding and you find yourself delivering very high consequences for very little net gain and no change, like the behavior's not changing, it's not decreasing, then yes, we're gonna stop doing that, right? Because there is no point in continually subjecting the dog to negative consequences that aren't effective. I mean, it's essentially just torture at that point, right? Because you're just, yes, you're doing something the dog, um, finds uncomfortable and that part is fine, but we do it for a reason, guys, right?

It's to achieve an end goal, which is for the behavior to go away. If that isn't happening, then we need to reassess what we, what we're doing, right? And there are some dogs out there, it's just can't do it.

They're just super, super rare. And if you think you have one of those dogs, you probably don't. It's probably you <laugh>, right? But it might not be. You might be one of those lucky folks that has one of those dogs. And so consult a professional and we can usually tell right away because their patterns are just very, very different from a normal dog, right? But some dogs are just harder, they're just harder. It just takes more, right? But my point just being, if your dog hasn't demonstrated the ability to modify behavior, that might be, that might be a neurological thing.

That might not be, we just need to keep doing a thing.

So there is that. So that's something you have to consider, um, is the, what's the dog's ability, right? Whether it's related to age, uh, lacking certain senses. Um, so they can't intake visual stimuli or audible stimuli. Um, genetic wiring, genetic tendencies, um, never having any rehearsal. These are all things that affect the dog's ability to change their behavior. The other thing you need to consider, um, when it comes to punishment procedures is what if I don't, and I think this one might be the best one on the list because I think it's the most common.

Um, so what if you don't do it?

Everyone's so worried about what's gonna happen if I do this. What if I bonk my puppy and they're too young, too young, my puppy's gonna hate me. No, they're not. Puppy's gonna love you. They're gonna suck right up. They're gonna be, oh my God, I'm so sorry, Mom. What happens if you don't? No, people don't spend enough time thinking about that. They spend all this time worrying about stuff that'll never happen, right? 80% of the stuff you worry about will never happen. That's what they say anyway. Um, but everyone is worried. You know, if they pop their puppy's leash, oh my God, puppy's gonna hate them forever.

Bonk the puppy. Oh my God, gonna ruin my relationship with my puppy. No, you're not. You're gonna fix it <laugh>. You're gonna fix your relationship. Um, and if it's not working, then stop doing it like we talked about, right? But here's what people don't think about. What if I don't do it? What if I don't set the boundary? What if I don't provide an effective correction? What if I don't do that? Okay, well maybe you have a Cane Corso who's gonna be 165 pounds and pushes you around and puts holes in people.

58:00 — She asks owners to weigh what might happen without intervention, including a small dog…

Or maybe you have a chihuahua that's gonna put holes in people or run up to an aggressive dog trying to assert himself and get killed. What if you don't? So that's something we should consider, right? If you're thinking my dog does this thing, should I punish it? That should be your number one question. What if I don't? Not enough people ask themselves that question. So those are the things besides just age that we might wanna consider, right? What's the level of liability? What's the dog's ability to modify their behavior? And what if I don't? Because generally the answer to what if I do is you just fix the behavior <laugh>, right?

Pretty simple. That's what happens. If you correct your dog, the behavior goes away. Yay. Like that's what we all want. Alright guys, I think I've been rambling on long enough. My throat is starting to get raspy.

It is time for me to go drink some iced coffee. Um, but I'll be back again soon and I look forward to seeing you. All right, back here next time. Hey guys, thanks for joining us today. I really hope you enjoyed the show. If there's a specific topic you'd like to hear discussed, you can send that to me directly via email or fan mail. Just jump down into the show notes. That information will be there for you. I really look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for supporting the show and I look forward to next time.