Dealing With Regression

00:00 — Kati Peppe introduces Off Leash and Unfiltered and Diamond K9 Dog Training’s off-leash obedience…

Welcome to Off Leash and Unfiltered. Trigger warning. I'm Kati Peppe, delivering the truth in dog training.

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Off Leash and Unfiltered. I'm Kati Peppe, owner of Diamond K9 Dog Training in Biddeford, Maine, and we specialize in e-collar training mostly for off-leash obedience and behavior modifications. So helping people stop all those annoying behaviors like jumping, barking, getting into the trash, digging holes, et cetera, but also serious stuff. Um, you know, like leash reactivity, aggression, resource guarding and, and all that business. We also do puppy training. Um, took a little bit of a reprieve there, not intentionally, uh, just been absolutely buried in dogs, which isn't a bad thing.

Um, but maybe, maybe I need to hire some more help <laugh>. I dunno. Um, because we've just been having a really hard time keeping up, and when that happens we get very, very focused on training the dogs and everything else just kind of takes a back seat.

Um, but so trying to get back into the swing of things, get back on track again. Um, and the month of June is, is looking a little bit lighter 'cause I have an event in the middle of the month and then I go on vacation at the end of the month. And so that has kind of precluded me from doing any long programs. Um, and so for that reason, the month of June is kind of light and I'm thinking, you know what, maybe that, maybe that's a good thing because it might give me a chance to, um, to do some thinking, um, logistically and figure out what we need to do.

We don't keep getting buried and getting off track, um, with all of our projects because I'm excited about the podcast and obviously, honestly I'm excited about social media stuff too, but we just don't have time to focus on that. So, um, so it's been kind of lacking. But anyway, I won't bore you with my <laugh> with my problems. Um, happy to be back. And the past couple of customers I've seen that have dropped off boarding dogs, it's just kind of prompted me to think a lot about, uh, regression. And so I, and that I know that's something that probably just about everybody has dealt with to one degree or another with their dog.

So regression isn't necessarily bad, right? And it doesn't necessarily mean you're doing anything wrong. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with your dog. Regression is just part of the journey for 99.9% of dogs and owners. And so how do you know when it is something to worry about?

So when I see a dog that we had for a board-and-train program, right? And this dog had some pretty serious issues, let's say reactive to people, um, maybe uses their teeth, maybe, um, is just a total frantic nutcase that runs around barking, chasing their tail, right? So there's lots of things this can look like. Um, but let's say it's a dog that had some fairly serious behavioral stuff, like stuff that needed an intervention. And then when I see them back again, whether it's for their follow-up or they're just being dropped off boarding or maybe I just run into them, but that doesn't happen that often, and the dog is just completely off their rocker.

04:00 — Early setbacks after board-and-train are expected while owners learn to establish the expectations their…

Or like, that's something to worry about. So in the beginning when, when the customer, when the owner, the handler is first learning to do this stuff, they're gonna have some of that serious regression and that's normal, right? So if your dog just came home from a training program and like the next day you go out, you encounter whatever their trigger is and it's messy and you have a hard time and your dog kind of does their old stuff, I'm not worried about that. I'm not actually worried about that.

So your dog came to us, learned how to do something different, not do that old stuff, but they don't know yet that you expect it.

And so you go out and you have some of those really messy moments and hopefully you address it the way we showed you to, or you try to. If you don't, then hopefully you at least know what you should have done and you're like, oh, I'll get it next time. And that's fine. No one's perfect. Um, and it's a lot to remember, especially in the moment. Um, so that's normal, right? And once you get that boundary established with your dog and those new expectations, that's gonna go away and your dog's gonna give you the same thing they gave us, which is just new and better behavior, impulse control that you didn't know they had <laugh>, but it's in there.

Uh, so that doesn't concern me, right? Or if a dog comes back for boarding or whatever and they're, you know, they're kind of pulling on the leash or their heel is a little outta whack, I'm not worried about that either. I don't love it, right? Of course. Like it would be great if dogs went home and everyone just maintained everything perfectly and the dogs just came back in perfectly and you know, every single thing they like remembered the expectations and never pushed any boundaries. Yeah, that'd be wonderful, but it's, that's also just not the real world.

It's not the real world and we know that. Um, and it's not a big deal. It's not a big deal. Um, the only time that stuff really is a big deal is if the person is still complaining about it. That's the red flag. So if someone drops their dog off for boarding and they're complaining that their dog still doesn't walk properly in a heel, that's a huge problem because we taught the dog and we taught the owner. And so what's happened is the owner or the handler just isn't reinforcing the boundaries that we taught. So the dog will respect whatever boundaries you enforce, right?

So right away, that's a huge red flag to me, 'cause it means this person's never gonna be happy. They're never gonna be satisfied because I can't enforce it for them. I just can't. We can't do that. There is no way to do that. I can teach the dog until I'm blue in the face. The dog can know it inside out, upside down, blindfolded and everything else. But if they're going to be in the hands of another handler who just doesn't enforce it, they're never gonna do it. And there is nothing I can do about that.

07:00 — For dogs with behavioral issues, Kati emphasizes state of mind rather than focusing only…

So that's one case where I worry about it. Um,

But mainly back to my first point is when I see the dog and they're just completely off their rocker again. And the reason that that happens is usually because we are missing all the moments that matter. We're too focused on the obedience aspect and not enough on the behavioral aspect. And if you have a dog with behavioral issues, it doesn't matter what they are. It might be nervousness, fearfulness, might be aggression, reactivity, anything, uh, might be neurotic, self-mutilating behavior. I don't care what it is. If you have a dog that's struggling with behavioral stuff, you need to think less about obedience and more about state of mind.

And I understand that that is a little confusing to people because they're not dog trainers. So it ought to be. Um, but what that means is small moments. So if you have an anxious dog or you have a nervous dog or you have a reactive dog, they shouldn't be spending all of their time trying to stay busy, trying to find things to extend the brain, frantically sniffing, frantically glancing around. Those are things you should address and help them settle when all the time, except for the few minutes where you tell them, go sniff around. Go run around.

Maybe it's off leash, maybe it's on your walk, you give them a break. Um, that's when it's okay, right? Or when we're gonna go throw the ball around, that's when it's okay. And then it's back to don't worry about the environment anymore.

Uh, so I get that it's really, really unnatural. But if you don't do that and if you just open the door and your dog chooses to fly through, even though you didn't invite them to, you're just, you're just falling right off the wagon. And it's not about the door, right? A door is a door is a door. It's about your dog making decisions based on the environment or based on what you tell them to do, 'cause you cannot have it both ways, guys. And that's why we harp on the door. It's not about the door.

I don't really give a shit about the door, okay? I don't care about the door. If you have a dog with no problems and you don't care about them running out the door and you're not worried about safety issues, fine, whatever, run through the door. Um, but for a lot of people, and I would say maybe even most people, 'cause you know, most dogs aren't just super mellow, no issues at all. Uh, even though people might like you to believe that <laugh>, um, I really want to wire dogs to just do what their handler asks them to do.

10:00 — Doors, food bowls, and approaching dogs become everyday opportunities to practice waiting for handler…

Do what their owner asks them to do. Instead of, I see an environmental cue, I react and I respond to that. And the door is just the easiest, most tangible example of that for people. Um, the crate door, the front door, the car door, all the doors. Um, food bowls, same thing. I set down a food bowl. It's not yours.

You see a thing in the environment, you don't respond to that. You wait for me to tell you, right? You see a dog walking toward us, you don't respond to that. You wait for me to tell you. If we're gonna go see that dog, I'll let you know. <laugh>, we're not <laugh>. Um, but almost every issue that you can think of with your dog is probably gonna be an environmental issue, right? There's something in the environment, your dog reacts to it. You don't like the way they react to it, whether it's jumping on people, reacting to other dogs, um, and anything.

And the way you fix that is you teach your dog, you wire your dog absolutely positively. When there's an environmental, you ignore. That is always the protocol, right? But people wanna do the, well, I don't mind if she does this and I don't mind if he does that.

It's like, yeah, but to your dog, this stuff's all kinda lumped together, right? In a sense, and I'm not saying they can't make the discrimination, but most people aren't good enough at dog training to teach their dog to make the discrimination <laugh>. So it's really gonna give you a lot more leverage if you just lump everything together and you say, nope, you can't respond to environmentals. You always wait for me to just tell you. Right? And when it's okay, it's okay. It's not that you can't exercise, it's not that you can't play. It's not that you can't have fun.

It's not that you can't run around. It's not that you can't sniff, but you can't choose to do that stuff just because you see an environmental. Just wait for me to tell you it's okay. Right? And I might not, like if there's another dog, like we're not gonna go say hi to that dog.

And I do teach dogs when I have them. When you see a dog, you cannot approach that dog. I don't just call dogs back and manage them. It's like, no, you see a dog and you approach it, you're gonna be corrected for that because you are not allowed to respond to environmentals that way. You do not decide to move forward. You do not decide to approach. That is not your decision. Ignore. That's what you're allowed to do. And if I decide we're gonna go see the dog, or you're gonna eat this bowl of food, or we're gonna go see that person, or we're gonna go through that door, I'll let you know.

So it's a, it's a mindset thing. And so when people don't do that and they miss all that stuff, they come back and the dog is just completely off their rocker again. And I can think of one little Chihuahua that's a good example. Um, and they were still doing okay with some of the stuff that was like really important to them. But I mean, they came back through that door and it took me 20 minutes to settle the dog. He was just like screaming. He was just absolutely frantic. Um, and you, so you can expect like all the issues they had are probably gonna continue to pop up here and there because in that state of mind, why wouldn't they?

Why wouldn't they? And so when we see regression, um, with state of mind, that's, that's the biggest, that's the biggest issue. Um, and I think, you know, you've got a problem when your dog responds so dramatically to environmentals. That is a problem.

14:00 — Repeated dramatic reactions to triggers concern Kati more than one isolated bad episode.

That is something to worry about. Like if you see a, a little bit of a response, but you know they're trying to do the right thing, maybe that's not as concerning. But if you have a dog when presented with certain triggers or certain contexts, they just absolutely can't keep it together. Like it's same old, same old, or it's getting worse. That is problematic. That is problematic. And when we're dealing with things like reactivity, I mean, we're gonna see those moments along the way, right? Or we'll be doing well, everything looks good, you know, maybe we've had a few good days or even weeks in a row, but then we go out one day and like, we just have a bad episode.

Okay, well maybe we know why. Maybe there was something different about that context or maybe we did something wrong, um, or different than we normally would, but maybe we have no idea.

But I wouldn't let one incident like that concern me. It's when it, you see it again and again. It's like, okay, we have a, we have a problem, we're going the wrong way. Um, yeah, state of mind, state of mind, state of mind, guys. But it's a big one. 'Cause like almost every dog that we see come back here has some kind of regression, not always. Um, and you'll know the ones that don't because they're at every group class. <laugh>, the ones that actually like, have zero regression, have maintained everything, have built on it. Like they're here at every group class, which is hilarious.

Um, because the group classes, and I mean, I'm happy to have them here, I love seeing them. Uh, but you know, we're here for the people who are struggling too, like that, you know? And that's the point is to be available for people who need help.

Um, and so hopefully as we move through the summer here, group size increases for those classes because I would love to see the people who are experiencing the regression, um, and also have them, they can talk to these people who aren't having the regression, who have managed to maintain everything and build on it. Um, because I think they're a very, very, very valuable resource and I think they can offer something I can't, which is the firsthand experience of, um, learning all of this stuff with a dog that has behavioral issues and going through the ups and downs and the regressions and just the whole journey.

So would love, love, love to see more people in the group classes. Um, but yeah, regression, you know, sometimes it's, it's stupid stuff and maybe it's not important, but sometimes it's like state of mind with dogs that have behavioral issues and that is a big deal.

17:00 — Kati urges owners whose dogs drag them across streets to reassess their follow-through on…

That's a really big deal. The other thing that might be qualified as a simple thing, but actually does bother me, is when dogs are just dragging people across the street, right? They're just, there's no need of that. There's absolutely no need of that. And I, I feel like that's the thing, you need to really take a look at yourself <laugh> if that's happening. Um, you know, and I mean, at the end of the day, it's your dog and it's your life. And if you're satisfied with that, then fine. Um, but I'm not okay with that <laugh>.

So there are very, very, very few things where I'm gonna tell people like, you have to do this with your dog if you want things to be okay. Um, you know, it's my job to give you advice, not to make you do stuff. Um, and to just tell you what I know and share what I know, like that's my job.

But I, I can't lie. It really, really pains me when people are being dragged by their dog because we send you home with so many tools and so much knowledge. Um, and you can achieve some pretty advanced stuff with your dog and you can take them anywhere and they can behave, you know, in most cases. And of course all dogs are different and some dogs are much more challenging. But you know, to see someone's dog pulling them down the street just because they chose not to enforce the boundaries with their e-collar, they don't have their dog on a prong collar, which everybody goes home with.

And we always recommend, um, you know, that that is something like a lot of people don't walk in a heel. And if they don't have dogs with behavioral issues, maybe that doesn't matter. And that's okay. Again, your dog, your life, you don't have to, um, but to let your dog drag you like that, like who's enjoying that?

Who's enjoying that? And what message are we sending and what relationship are we building? And it's, it does, it hurts me, <laugh>, it hurts me to see that. Um, don't let your dog drag you. Please <laugh>, please don't let your dog drag you. Um, and I think, you know, most people in that situation, they don't want that, but maybe they've just kind of fallen off the wagon too, which we're all susceptible to doing because we're all human. Um, but that's what group class is for. We're here to help you get back in the saddle and get things back on track.

But so the long and short of it is regression is part of almost everybody's journey. If you bring your dog home from a board-and-train, and there's some initial regression during those first few days, that first week, um, that is nothing to be concerned about, but it is super important that you, um, really stick to your guns, follow through and follow the protocols that your trainer showed you.

Um, hopefully you had a good trainer who actually <laugh> gave you the right information. Um, if you're doing private lessons or you're just working with your dog by yourself, your dog might be doing really well for a while and then have a little regression. Again, that's not necessarily anything to worry about. Um, really important to address it, follow through, um, and hopefully it's a learning moment for your dog. And the next time will look better again and you'll get back on track. Uh, and that stuff happens. It's rarely just a straight uphill line from start to finish.

20:00 — Progress should bring more good days and longer gaps between regression episodes.

You know, it, there's usually a lot of backtracking along the way. There's gonna be good days, there's gonna be bad days. Um, and that's okay. Um, but overall you should see those good days increasing and the times in between those periods of regression, uh, should be increasing, right?

So the regression episodes should be less and less. Now, if you see your dog in small moments still responding to the environment instead of you, that's something you want to go after, um, that's a red flag that their brain is still just wired to respond to environmentals, right? And that's gonna work against you. Um, so really, really go after that and, uh, pay attention to state of mind. So focus less on obedience and just more on state of mind. Just because your dog can sit, can lay down, can go to place and can walk in a heel.

Um, if they can't sit still without losing their mind, if company can't come in the door without them losing their mind, then none of that stuff matters. So you can use the obedience in a way that's really helpful and helps to give you leverage. Um, but obedience in of itself will not fix those problems. They need to be addressed directly, which means forget about the obedience at first and just correct your dog for doing the stuff that you don't want them to do anymore.

And once you have that proper correction in there, then you can ask them to do some obedience stuff if you want to. And they might need some help because it's a big moment, right? They're escalated, they're elevated, they get corrected, they might get panicky. Um, so then you can step in and give your dog some help and some guidance. But like just, you know, sit down, go to place, that is not gonna fix door reactivity. That is not gonna fix fear, that is not gonna fix any of that stuff. And just to be clear, like we don't just correct dogs for being afraid.

Um, we might correct them for obedient stuff when they're afraid. Um, but I didn't wanna just send the wrong <laugh> the wrong message there. Um, you know, if your dog is lunging at somebody, or charging the door or self-mutilating or, those are things that you need to address and correct directly.

Uh, you can't just give your dog command in those moments because it won't work. That will not solve the problem. And it's the state of mind that we see is always lacking when the dogs come back for follow-up or for boarding or whatever the case may be. They know their obedience commands inside and out, guys. It's not that they don't know them, it's that their state of mind is way back at square one, right? Because they've been allowed to respond to environmentals without handler permission. They've been allowed to charge through doors, they've been allowed to bark at dogs.

They've been allowed to get overexcited when people come home. They've been allowed to sniff frantically when they're on the place cot. They've been allowed to do all these things. And so their brain just gets more and more wired and goes, goes backwards.

But that's it. So I, you know, there's no need to be depressed if you have some regression, but it's like, you know, what are we seeing? Where are we in our process? How severe is it? How often is it happening? And, um, do I have control of my dog in the small moments in between those times in between, those really challenging times? And if you don't, then you need to focus on that. But regression is part of everybody's journey. Totally normal. Uh, not necessarily a big deal. Um, but certainly, you know, if you've put your dog through a program or you've put in the time and trained your dog to a, to a high level, there's no need of them charging your door.

24:00 — Owners should examine their consistency and seek trainer help when they cannot restore their…

There's no need of them dragging you down the street. And if that stuff's happening, then you need to look at your process.

You need to take some accountability for that because there's something missing for sure. And so, you know, when someone tells us that that stuff's still happening and we know it's a dog that's capable of better because they did so much better with us, um, that hurts <laugh>, that that hurts pretty deep. It's like you got, you gotta enforce the boundaries. Like nobody can do that for you, right? But if you are trying your damnedest and like you just can't get there, then like that's when you need to ask for help, right? Rather that be us, you know, if we trained your dog or rather that be someone else, if you don't have a trainer yet, like you need to get, get some help if you can't get your dog into a place where they wait for instruction from you versus responding to environmentals.

Um, because that really is at the key of everything.

And I was just talking about that with a customer the other day. At the end of the day, all of this training and the only thing that really matters to everybody with a dog is you should teach your dog to listen to you no matter what, right? If you really think about it, that solves all problems, right? You have to listen to me. It's not negotiable. It is not optional. There are no—you have to listen to me. There are no exceptions. And it doesn't matter if we're home in our living room and nothing's going on, or if someone's coming through the door or we're at the park or we're at Home Depot, doesn't matter.

There's a dog barking at you going crazy. You have to listen to me. And at the end of the day, if you can get that, you're probably gonna be in a pretty good place. Um, alright, that's it for today, guys. Thanks for joining me and hopefully, um, now that we're back in the saddle, we'll have another one for you real soon. All right, thanks again. Bye-bye.