Boundaries Aren’t Just For Your Dog, They’re For Your Friends, Family, And Strangers, Too

00:00 — Kati Peppe introduces Diamond K9 Dog Training in Biddeford, Maine, and its focus on…

Welcome to Off Leash and Unfiltered. Trigger warning. I'm Kati Peppe, delivering the truth in dog training.

Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Off Leash and Unfiltered. I am Kati Peppe, owner of Diamond K9 Dog Training in Biddeford, Maine. We specialize in e-collar training, both for off-leash obedience as well as, um, behavior modification and state of mind work. So we help people eliminate unwanted behaviors. Uh, everything from simple stuff like jumping and barking and digging holes to more serious stuff like serious separation anxiety, leash reactivity, aggression, resource guarding, and all, all that monkey business. And we also do puppy training. So that's who we are and what we do. And this podcast is here for us to share everything we know with you.

And we generally talk about things that we are talking about with our clients every day. So really taking what we're, what we're seeing people need, um, and just sharing it. For anybody who is looking for the information, here it is.

So we really, um, we're really committed to being honest and transparent and very straightforward, um, about everything that we do and everything that we know is effective. Um, so because this information's really hard to find, it's really hard to find because honestly it's pretty unpopular. And, and that's <laugh>, that's a common trend nowadays. Um, the truth is often very unpopular. So, uh, really, really important to us, uh, that we're honest and that we make the information available to those who, who want it and who really want to be effective and make progress with their dogs.

So that's what we're doing. Uh, but today I kind of wanted to go on a little tangent, <laugh>, not that that's anything new, um, about judgment, because I hear this a lot. And this was actually a recent suggestion as well from a very good client of ours, um, that it's something we should talk about and we talk about it occasionally, but I thought we'd dedicate, uh, some time to it because it's, it's, oh, she's right, man, because it's so common. And we hear this all the time, all the time, all the time. Uh, and really no one, no one's immune to this.

I feel like this is really in everybody's life to some extent or other, um, judgment.

03:00 — Kati challenges claims that positive reinforcement alone is the most effective and least stressful…

Judgment about what? Well, just about what you're doing with your dog, how you're training your dog. Um, so there are some opinions out there if you didn't know that already <laugh>. And it's really, really, really common to hear that you should only use positive reinforcement and that it's scientifically proven to be the most effective, less stressful way to train your dog. And that you should never need anything else besides positive reinforcement. And let's just get that out of the way first. That is the biggest load of bullshit that there just could be. Like, the internet's full of lies, right?

This is the biggest lie on the internet <laugh>, as far as I'm concerned. Um, it's just not true. It's just not true. And it's really common for me to even hear our customers who are being, experiencing a lot of success with the training to say something that indicates that they think there's something kind of wrong or different about their dog. That they had to use something besides positive reinforcement. And it gets me going every time, 'cause it's so important to me that all of our cl—not just all of our clients, but everybody understand that if you are not getting what you want from your dog using only positive reinforcement, that's normal.

There's nothing wrong with your dog. It's not that you haven't been patient enough. It's not that you haven't put in enough time, it's just normal. But we're so conditioned to the narrative out there that that's how you do it. That's how you do it. That's how you do everything. That's all you should need. Um, people are just like brainwashed now. And so the assumption is just that like our dog is difficult if it doesn't work. And I want you to really think about that if that's you, because that means you really believe that there are other people out there that are getting reliable behavior from their dog, even when it's difficult and challenging, using nothing but positive reinforcement.

And I'm here to tell you that they aren't. It is a lie, period. It's just a lie.

Um, now I'm not saying that there aren't people that are satisfied with their dog's behavior using nothing but positive reinforcement. But I'm telling you that number one, their dog is probably much just softer and easier and mellower and/or number two, their bar is just really fucking low <laugh>. So that's the most common one, right? It's like, yeah, I'm satisfied with my dog's behavior because the truth is I just don't expect anything from my dog. I expect my dog to only come back a third of the time or to not come back when there's another dog around.

06:00 — Kati argues that reliable behavior requires an avoidable negative consequence and warns against unreliable…

I just expect that. So I'm fine with that. Okay, well, if you're fine with that, great. I'm not fine with that. And you shouldn't be fine with that. Um, especially that specific thing. Um, because off-leash and having an unreliable dog is just very, very unsafe.

But that's a lie. So it is true for every single dog across the board: for a behavior to be truly reliable under any condition, there needs to be a consequence for which the dog wants to avoid. There needs to be a negative consequence for noncompliance. That's true for every dog, period. Also, it's true for every person. So one of the common things I hear is it's just like raising kids, right? And it's like, yeah, it is, but it's also just like you and me, we're not exempt from the rules of behavior, right? So I do things every day that I don't feel like doing, and I do them because the consequences of not doing them is intolerable, right?

And vice versa. There are things I wanna do that I don't because the consequences of doing those things would be intolerable. So it's a trade-off. It's always a trade-off. Every behavior and every consequence, every choice we make, there's a trade-off to be made that applies to your dog too. And if you don't acknowledge that fact, then you struggle. So anyways, nothing wrong with your dog. Um, if positive reinforcement is not getting reliable behavior, I wouldn't expect it to. That's just normal. But that doesn't stop people from being <laugh>, armchair experts, keyboard warriors, um, and just downright rude when they see you doing anything other than shoving treats in your dog's face.

So, I mean, even just saying no to the dog is frowned upon by a lot of people. You're just not even supposed to say no anymore <laugh>, which is ridiculous. Um, or popping the leash. Oh my God, you popped your dog's leash. Oh my God. So mean, right? Prong collars are evil, evil, evil. You need pain. You obviously don't know what you're doing. You need pain to train your dog. It's like, first of all, prong collars don't inflict pain. They just sit there. All the control of the prong collar. Everything the prong collar does is dictated by the handler.

09:00 — Kati distinguishes gentle prong-collar guidance from uncomfortable corrections and argues that an intolerable consequence…

Yeah, you can inflict an uncomfortable correction with a prong collar. You can also give very gentle guidance.

There's lots of things you can do with a prong collar. Um, but for the folks that say you should never need pain to train, it's like, well, first of all, if you wanna get technical about it, you don't. You need an intolerable consequence. That doesn't always have to be pain, but it needs to be an intolerable consequence. So we often use the bonker, which is a rolled-up towel, for things. Uh, super, super effective. Great tool. Does not operate on pain. Quite often, it is more effective than the e-collar for reasons I'm not gonna get into right now because it's not what this episode is supposed to be about.

Um, but the fact is you do need intolerable consequences to make behavior reliable. Yes, you do. And physical discomfort is just one of the easiest ways to achieve that. What else are you gonna do?

You gonna go put your doggy in timeout? People do that. Guess what? That doesn't work. That's not real. You're treating your dog like a toddler. They're not a toddler, they're not connecting what's happening. And most of the time that consequence isn't intolerable. It might be mildly annoying. It's not intolerable. It does not surpass, um, the enjoyment of doing whatever it is that they were doing, right? Your dog likes to jump on people and then you kennel them as a punishment. You put them in timeout, they're gonna jump on people again the next time. They just are. Feels really good to jump on people, they're excited.

They get to let out all that energy, that frustration, whatever. It's fun. They get pets. Whatever the case is, they like to do it. And if, if they get put in the kennel afterwards, that's fine. Who cares, right? So that just becomes the pattern. Now I jump on people and then I get put in the kennel and then I jump on people and then I get put in the kennel and then I jump on people and then I get put in the kennel. And like, you just do that forever. And if that is good with you, like if that's what you want, great.

12:00 — Kati describes using a correction for jumping so the dog can remain part of…

Do that <laugh>.

But that doesn't work for me. So if it's me, my dog jumps on people, I say no, I provide an intolerable correction and they just don't jump on people anymore and then we're done. We can just move on with our lives. I don't have to put my dog in the kennel. Um, and that behavior goes away. And now my dog can be out and can be part of the social gathering because they can behave themselves. 'Cause I taught them how to do that. 'Cause I actually gave them the information about what is not acceptable and what the consequence is if they engage in that behavior, right?

And I'm not mad at my dog, he's just doing dog stuff, right? So I'm not trying to make my dog feel bad about jumping. I'm not mad at my dog. I don't think there's something wrong with him. I don't think he's a bad dog, right? But it's like, hey, you jump, it hurts. I make it suck to jump. So just don't jump. And then that's it. We can all just move on. It's great. But you'll get the people that go, oh, you have one of those awful shock collars on your dog. Uh-huh <laugh>.

And what would your alternative be? What would you suggest? Right? I'll tell you what they would suggest. They would suggest that you just let your dog jump on people for the rest of its life and shove treats in its face when it's not jumping because they've been brainwashed that that's effective and it's not. And you know, the funny thing is, all you have to do is use your brain to think about this for about two seconds, right? Just because I get rewarded when I'm not doing something doesn't mean I'm never gonna do the thing. Give me a break.

So like, I'm sitting right now, and if someone just came in and started rewarding me and paying me like, here's a dollar, here's a dollar, here's $5, here's a dollar. Like, that's great, but eventually I'm still gonna get up, right? I mean, it's just common sense when you actually think about it. But that's the problem is these people don't have the capacity to critically think. They're not those type of people. And you'll see this in other areas in their life. Um, they can't think for themselves. They cannot do it. All they can do. They need someone to tell them what to think.

And then they can think that. And also, if it's something that, you know, appeals to them as looking virtuous <laugh>, then they can go around telling everyone else that they're wrong and just repeating everything they've heard, repeating everything they heard, which by the way is all they can do because they don't actually know. They haven't done it themselves, right? Or maybe they have with their one dog <laugh>, right? Which obviously makes them an expert because they've trained their dog, which by the way, they probably didn't train their dog. Their dog's probably a mess. But regardless, like let's just say they had that one dog that actually is perfect with doing nothing but shoving treats in their face, which doesn't exist.

But let's just say, just for the sake of, just to play devil's advocate here, let's just say that their dog is perfect. That's one dog.

16:00 — Kati rejects universal training advice based on one dog, citing differences in genetics, personality,…

If you are gonna take your experience with your one dog, and you are now gonna apply that to everybody else, and their lifestyle and their family dynamic, and their dog and their dog's genetics and their dog's personality, and you're actually gonna assert that what you did with what they did with their one dog should work for all of those other people and dogs, you are an asshole. <laugh> That person's an asshole. Um, I mean, can you really be, um, can you really be that blind to like how reality works? And to the fact that there are lots of factors in like every dog and every situation.

It's different. They're not all like yours. Like how selfish and self-absorbed do you need to be to think that? I mean, really. But anyways, I think the point that we need to get to here is, so what do you do?

Like, how do you handle that? Um, and this is actually kind of a tough one for me because for me it's very easy and for a lot of other people it's not. And I get that. Um, I tend to be, I tend to gravitate toward confrontation. So I'm not saying I want it, I'm not saying I'm intentionally like argumentative or confrontational. Um, but I don't shy away from that at all. In fact, it's important and it's kind of the thing that I'm passionate about. So I do gravitate toward it. You know, if I sense that somebody is uncomfortable, um, or is passing judgment, I tend to want to dive deeper into that.

And not that I care. 'Cause I don't, I don't care what anybody thinks really. Um, but usually I'm dealing with somebody in the field. I'm dealing with a, a customer especially. Um, and so these are things that need to be out on the table, right?

And I need to be honest, I need to be transparent. I need to be straightforward. Um, or, you know, I'm dealing with somebody who's in my life and it's like, well, if you're gonna be in my life, then like, this is how it is. Take it or leave it, right? So I'm, I'm not gonna go through life having, uh, these tense relationships <laugh>. It's like, no, this is, this is how it is. These are the, these are the rules. Like this is what I do. You don't like it, you don't have to be here. That sort of thing.

So I, I definitely tend to gravitate toward like getting out, getting it on the table, being honest, um, and uh, not beating around the bush, so to speak, or sweeping things under the rug.

Uh, very, very passionate about that, which is obviously why I started this podcast in the first place. Um, I'm currently waiting for somebody to walk in 'cause I'm expecting a boarder to show up. So I'm just trying to listen. So you'll hear me like get quiet for a second. But, you know, if you've got, I think for most of my clients, it's their friends and family obviously that are judgmental. And that can be a really difficult situation for people to navigate. Especially if you do shy away from confrontation and you don't like it, um, that can be really hard.

20:00 — Kati recommends handling criticism honestly rather than lying about training choices to avoid confrontation.

So it's like, well, what do you do? And it's like, well, I think it's really important not to lie.

I think that's so, so, so important. Um, so I mean, at the end of the day, everyone's gonna do what they feel comfortable doing. But I think sometimes this ends up being kind of a personal exercise for the person, right? Your dog is learning and training, but you're on your own journey as well. And so it's like, why should you have to explain yourself to anybody? Why should you have to defend what you do to anybody? You shouldn't. And so if you're doing that or you feel the need to do that, like maybe that's a thing that you're working on, like maybe this is a thing that's happening for a reason.

Maybe this is <laugh>, maybe this training is part of your journey, um, to just get better at saying, I don't owe anybody an explanation or an apology for the decisions I make in my own life. Like, you guys don't get a vote, right?

You don't get a vote. So it, you know, to me, and it really depends too 'cause there are different ways, right? That people can judge you. It's like they can judge you silently. They can talk behind your back. Um, or they can just kind of gently imply that, like, they don't like it and they think it's kind of abusive. Um, or they can just be downright rude. Like people can be to me, usually total strangers, um, that will actually call you terrible names and tell you that you should die and all this other stuff. Um, so obviously I think the way we would deal <laugh> with the judgment would be different depending on which, uh, where they are on that spectrum.

But at the end of the day, the bottom line is you just don't owe anybody an explanation or an apology. You just don't. And I think it really has to come from the inside. It has less to do with how you handle it on the outside and more to do with how you're handling it on the inside. It's like, do you actually feel bad because someone else made a comment or implied something about your training? Why? I think that's the thing that needs to be examined, is why do you give that person that kind of power?

Do you not believe that you love your dog? Do you not believe that you're doing what's in their best interest? Of course you do. So why does that bother you so much? And I think that's worth really spending some time contemplating, right? And maybe it's not everybody, maybe it's just certain people, right? That you just give them too much power, um, which is a whole other can of worms, <laugh>, right? That we're, we don't, you're gonna have to call, um, you're gonna have to listen to a therapy podcast <laugh> to get further on that topic, I think.

Um, but really, like, don't give people that kind of power. And so if someone's going to be in your life, right? And this is where we start kind of morphing it out of, like, dog training into, like, human therapy. And I'm not a therapist. I don't claim to be.

Um, but you know, I think there are definitely some things that are obviously true. You as a healthy adult individual have to be able to set boundaries in your relationships. You have to, because if you don't, there will always be those people that are always sticking their nose where they shouldn't or making you feel bad or taking advantage of you, right? Not necessarily because they're bad people, but because nobody's perfect. Everybody's got their things, right? And if you don't have boundaries in your relationships, then that stuff's going to happen and you're gonna pay a price for it.

24:00 — Kati frames unsolicited opinions about her dog training as a relationship boundary.

And so when it comes to dog training, it's like you have to have a boundary, right? And to me, you just don't get to be in my life and give me your opinion on dog training.

Um, unless we're having an intentional, productive conversation, in general, you don't get to talk to me about how you judge my dog training, right? So I'm not saying I can't talk with people about dog training and, like, they can't converse with me and give me their opinions on things. But I am saying, you can't be in my life and tell me that you don't agree with using the e-collar. I don't care if you don't agree with using the e-collar. Like, that's okay, but you don't get to say that to me. And that's not even, that's not even rude necessarily, right?

But it is because, like, I use one, you know, I use one, you can see I use one. I don't need your opinion, right? It's like if I am eating whatever, a piece of pickle pizza, like, I don't need you walking by me every five minutes telling me you hate pickle pizza. I don't care. <laugh>

I don't care, right? If I put my kid in timeout and you don't agree with that, you don't get to keep telling me you don't agree with that. You can leave. So if you're going to be in my life, I'm, you know, I'm gonna set that boundary where it's like, okay, you're in my house. This is how I train my dogs. If someone expresses how they feel, I might very kindly the first time just tell them, that's good. That's your opinion. I have a very different opinion. And so when you're in my house, we're just not gonna have this discussion.

Okay? Like, that's a boundary. Do whatever you want with your own dogs, but seriously, you, it's okay to tell people that. Like, they just can't say that to you. It doesn't matter how they're saying it, it doesn't matter if they're saying it nicely, it doesn't matter. Like, it's almost harassment, right? It's like, I don't need to hear that you don't agree with what I'm doing all the time. It's not your business, right? And so for me, I would just say that, like, really, it's just not your business, right? But if you're not one of those people, it's like, then you need to find a way to just tactfully say, this is a boundary.

Like, when you're here, we're just not gonna talk about this. If that's right, even if it's not all right. Like, we're, we're not gonna have this discussion and that's it, right? So there's no comfortable way to do it. Like, if it makes you uncomfortable, um, but you wanna frame it up like it's just boundary because that's what it is. Just a boundary. Yeah. If we're out and we're talking about strangers, um, I actually find that the more confident you look and the less you're making eye contact and communicating with other people, the less likely they are to even interact with you at all.

28:00 — Kati recommends focusing on the dog rather than making eye contact that could invite…

So most of us make the mistake of making eye contact with people when we're out and about. And that's sort of an invite to come chat with us or even say hi to our dog, which I don't do obviously, as most of you know. Um, but it's like, if you're not interested in interacting with strangers, then like, why are we making eye contact with them? Right? If you're training your dog, then pay attention to your dog and then you're gonna get a lot less of that anyway. Now, yeah, there's gonna be the occasional idiot who's gonna just come over and give you their unsolicited advice about how you're doing everything wrong and how you're torturing your dog, and how you obviously don't know what you're doing and you shouldn't need that.

Um, and you can imagine what I would say to those people, <laugh>, you can imagine, uh, just use your imagination.

But I mean, I don't feel like you have to say anything. Like, if you're a non-confrontational person and you don't like those kind of interactions, then just don't even acknowledge it. Walk away. Just literally walk away. If for some reason you're in a situation, in an environment where you can't just walk away, then again it's like, okay, this is a boundary that you need to set with a stranger so you can do it like me <laugh>, or you can do it more tactfully. I don't usually choose to do that. Um, there's really nothing that burns me more than like unsolicited judgment and advice.

<laugh> In general. It's like, I didn't ask and I don't care <laugh>. Um, but if you wanted to be more tactful, then I think really you just need to have something prepared ahead of time, right? Because again, just like the off-leash situation I talked about in the last episode, it's like it's getting caught off guard. So like, if this is a thing that you're really worried about, then take the anxiety out of the situation and have a prepared response, then you won't have to think about it, which will make it a lot easier, right?

31:00 — Kati distinguishes genuine questions from accusations and advises against trying to convince hostile critics.

But what I don't do is I don't try to convince people. I don't do that. Don't do that. I think that's a big one, right? Whether we're talking about family or strangers, don't try to convince people.

If they want to know, they will ask. They don't wanna know. I can promise you because they don't want to see that they're wrong. They are not interested in reality. A hundred percent not interested in reality, not interested in what your experience has been, not interested in how much better your dog is doing. Um, now if someone's just asking questions, that's different, right? But if someone's just coming up and telling you you're an abusive son of a bitch, this isn't a person that is going to be convinced. It's not your job to convince people. I don't even try to convince people.

The information I put out there is for people who want it, who are ready for it, who are looking for it, not for people who think I'm an abusive asshole. This is not for them. I don't care about those people.

So don't try to convince people. Don't try to explain yourself, right? Because then you're playing into it too, and it's like, oh yeah, well my dog was difficult, my dog was different, my dog was harder. No, your dog is normal. Remember, this person is just just wrong and they've either believed the lies or it's so important for them to appear virtuous and saintly that they go around verbally judging others to make themselves look and feel better. So you don't have to play into that and pretend that there's just something wrong with your dog. No. So you have to have a prepared way of dealing with these people, right?

And I, I'm not gonna tell you what to say specifically. Say whatever you want, but have it figured out ahead of time so that you can feel, um, more confident when you're in those situations.

But you don't owe anybody an explanation. You don't have to entertain their ideas and they don't have to entertain yours. And that's okay, <laugh>. Um, so again, it's like if you wanted to be confrontational, but I think most people don't. It's like, okay, yeah. How many hundreds of dogs have you trained <laugh>, right? It's like they haven't, they haven't, they don't know what they're talking about. Um, or it's like, okay, show me. Right? If you're an expert and you know everything, like you show me, you show me a dog with a bad behavior, with a high prey drive, with severe leash reactivity, and you show me shoving treats in its face and then leash reactivity is gone, you show me prey drive is not a problem anymore.

Show me. Right? And they can't. It's like you could go that route, but why bother? Really? It's like, just state your boundary.

Like, look, I'm just not interested in your opinion on this, right? So a lot of my customers, I think what they say when they're in that situation is something along the lines of, well, we struggled and for a long time and this has worked really well for us, right? Maybe they even thank them for their, their opinion or their advice. But God, that makes me sick to even think about. Um, because that person's not being helpful. And frankly, they're not trying to be helpful. They're just trying to make you feel bad and they're trying to look better at your expense.

35:00 — Kati encourages listeners to focus on their dog’s progress rather than giving critics power…

And yep, that pisses me off. <laugh>, that pisses me off. But at the end of the day, it's like, if this stuff really makes you feel that bad, think about that and why you give those people that kind of power and why you can't look at your dog and be like, oh my God, what we've done is amazing. My dog's come so far and I feel so good about it and like, I did this for my dog and I used these tools to do it and it's the best thing ever, right? And just go through the world that way.

And if you really believe that stuff, which you should, because if it's true, then it's true, right? And these other people are just like off their rockers, right? Because if it was anything else, if it was anything else, if it was somebody who's walking and you get outta your car and they looked at you and told you you were terrible for driving a car, right? Let's say they're, um, big into environmental protection or something and they'll believe anybody should drive cars and they just look at you and they just tell you like, what an awful person you are for driving a car, would you let that bother you?

No. You'd be like, oh my God, that person's somewhat whacked. Right? Or this person just lives in a whole other reality. And by the way, I'm not saying it's bad to care about the environment, but obviously that's pretty extreme, right? And if you really wanted to get into it, there are lots of other things that are much worse that they're not talking about. Um, and so there's just no, there's no reasoning with that person, but it's like you wouldn't even give that person that kind of power most likely, right? But with this, for some reason we do.

And the reason we do is because the narrative out there is so prevalent, right? Those people are loud and it's so common that we tend to kind of crumble in the face of it.

38:00 — Kati says boundaries apply to friends, family, and strangers, and listeners need not participate…

So whether it's family, friends, strangers, you have to set those boundaries. You don't have to tolerate having that conversation with anybody. You don't have to tolerate listening to what they think. You don't have to, and so don't, right? And you can be nice about it or you can just tell them to screw off, which is what I would do <laugh>. And either way I think is okay. Uh, and again, uh, part of that might come down to where they land on that spectrum themselves, right? But just the fact that they're asserting their opinion, even if they're doing it tactfully, it's just not okay. I don't want it.

I didn't ask for it. It's rude to give it to me. <laugh>, right? It's like going up to someone and telling them that you don't think they should be wearing a crop top. It's like, okay, not your business. Maybe you're right, but not your business, right? Or that they shouldn't have all those piercings in their face. It's like, no one's gonna do that. So why is it okay to walk up to people and tell them what they shouldn't be doing with their dog? It's not right. And if it really was abuse, if you were doing something truly abusive, right?

Like taking your anger out on your dog physically and causing harm, well then they should call the police, right? But that's not the case. That's never the case. Um, they're always just being super saintly and judgmental, um,

About stuff that they think they can get away with. This is just an easy one. It's a really easy one. But oftentimes these people do this in, uh, other areas of life as well, right? Super, super virtuous type. 'Cause like really, even if you don't like e-collars, even if you're like, uh, I couldn't do that. Like, are you gonna walk up to someone and be like, hey, you shouldn't be doing that? That's a lot, like to be that person. You've got something a little wrong with you <laugh>. Um,

It just isn't normal to go give strangers your opinion on anything that they're doing when it isn't being asked for, right? So people come to me for training and yeah, I give them my opinion on what they're doing. 'Cause that's what they're paying me for. They're literally paying me to tell them what they're doing wrong and what will work better, right? But just some rando on the street, no <laugh>, like, I don't need your opinion on how I dress. I don't need your opinion on where I shop, what I drive or how I train my dog.

41:00 — Kati suggests preparing separate responses for critics who appear polite and those who are…

And the fact that you think you can just give it to me tells me you're not wired quite right. And so I'm just gonna tell you, this is something I don't want.

Thank you, but I'm not interested in your opinion. Say it however you want. Put some time. Think about it. Like really, if it makes you that uncomfortable, think about like how, how you can say it tactfully and just have it pre-prepared. Like, like that's the best advice I can give you. And maybe have two, two responses prepared. One for people that are, um, trying to appear polite. I'm not even say polite because it's just not polite to do that. Like, period. It's just not polite to just walk up to a person and give them your opinion.

Um, but one response prepared for those people and then one response prepared for the people who are just, uh, downright nasty, right? But as far as family and friends go, it's like, it's the same as any other issue in your life. It's an honest conversation that needs to be had. It's like, hey, look, I love you. I like having you guys here, but this topic, it really just isn't open for discussion or negotiation.

And I'd prefer to not talk about it, like anyone that's gonna be here. We're just, we're just not having that discussion. This just isn't open for debate when you're here or when anybody's here, and that's it. Like, they can then take it or leave it. The ball's in their court, right? If they'd actually prefer to just not be your friend or family and just not come to your house or not go on these outings with you or whatever it is, like if they'd actually rather not be part of it because they can't force their opinion on you or constantly throw it in your face, well then that tells you all you need to know about that relationship, right?

Anyone that's worth having in your life is gonna say, okay, understood. And that's gonna be it. That's the end of it. That's it. Always gonna be a tough, always gonna be a tough one. Always gonna be part of our reality, I think. Um,

44:00 — Kati closes by arguing that yielding to unsolicited judgment reinforces the pressure owners face…

Because it can be a very divisive topic. And like I said, part of the reason is because that narrative has just become so strong and so overwhelming. Um, I've tried asking ChatGPT about dog training even, and it really struggles. It really struggles to find the truth as far as it's concerned. Um, at least last I checked, you just shove treats in your dog's face, you know? And so it's hard 'cause that's what everything and everyone out there says, and it just isn't true, right? But it's like the more we allow these people to do that kind of thing, um, just approach us and thrust their unwanted opinions on us.

Um, cast judgment and just cave to it. Like the more we feed the problem, the more we feed the problem. But that's it. That's it for today, guys. Um, thanks for joining me and I look forward to the next time.