Building An Easier Life With Your Dog-Less Management And More Enjoyment

00:00 — Kati Peppe introduces Diamond K9 Dog Training and its focus on e-collar training, off-leash…

Welcome to Off Leash and Unfiltered. Trigger warning. I'm Kati Peppe, delivering the truth in dog training.

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Off Leash and Unfiltered. I am Kati Peppe, owner of Diamond K9 Dog Training in Biddeford, Maine, and we specialize mostly in e-collar training, both for off-leash obedience and behavior modifications. So helping people stop, um, all those unwanted behaviors. Everything from simple stuff like barking and jumping, digging holes, et cetera, uh, to the more serious stuff, reactivity, aggression, um, all that, all that monkey business. Um, we also do puppy training, so that's who we are and what we do. And this prod podcast, this podcast is brought to you, um, as our way of kind of reaching as many people as we can and just making this information available to those who are seeking it.

Because it is so hard to find this stuff, um, on the internet or, or anywhere. Um, it's just really, really tough to find accurate information and to find out what really works.

And there's a couple of reasons for that. Um, and that's not what this episode is about. But, you know, just real quickly, if you know this isn't a podcast you're familiar with, if you haven't listened to me before, uh, this information's just really hard to find because the fact of the matter is, just to get straight to the point, punishment is necessary to stop behaviors, to eliminate behaviors in the long term. Um, and that just isn't information that people are willing to give you. Um, a lot of people are ignorant, of course, and they don't know.

Um, but even a lot of the folks that do know just aren't going to tell you that because as far as they're concerned, it's not a good look. There's not as much money in it. Um, and so that's that. Um, however, you're gonna find that most really good, really effective dog trainers got into dog training because they had a terrible dog, or they had a bad experience with a dog of their own, um, and they also could not find the answers.

Um, and once they did, they became very, very passionate about that. And that is exactly my story. And so I am super, super passionate about this topic. Um, not because I'm a big meanie or a big bully, but because it is absolutely life-changing once you get your hands on this information and it can destroy your relationship with your dog, it can result in people getting hurt, your dog getting put down, all sorts of awful, awful stuff if you don't get this information. Um, and so it's a topic we discuss a lot. Um, and so that's, that's mainly why we have this podcast here.

And we're, we're talking about different stuff every day, uh, and it's stuff that we're talking about with our customers in person day in and day out. So I figure if this is the information that we're talking about and that they need and that they're interested in, it's probably what a lot of you need as well. So hopefully you get something out of this. If nothing else, you get to pass some time listening to me babble on, <laugh>.

One really common thing that I find us talking about in almost every customer appointment that we have is the difference between obedience training and behavior training or modification, right? So this is so, so important. And sometimes I feel like I'm harping on these topics and I'm being very repetitive. Um, but it remains that these are just the topics that I see people need the most help with. And sometimes even if you've heard it before, it's like it needs to be stated in the right way, or the right example has to be given for it to really resonate with you and for that light bulb to kind of come on.

04:00 — Kati distinguishes obedience from behavior modification, describing reward-based teaching of sit, down, place, and…

So hopefully you don't feel like I'm beating a dead horse here. Um, but when it comes to obedience versus behavior, there's just such a huge difference, right? So we can, we can teach our dogs all these wonderful obedience commands, um, and we can have fun doing it, and they can be very engaged and enthusiastic about it.

Even, um, like learning to sit, learning to lay down on command, learning to go to place, learning to walk in a heel, and I am obviously all for that. We do that every day, uh, here at the training center. And also when we're teaching those things, it's primarily reward-based. So if the dog's into food, we use food, um, even if they're not, you know, we have praise, we have affection if they like affection, that sort of thing. Uh, but once you build that obedience foundation and you teach them what the words mean, essentially by showing them the behavior and you tie the word to the behavior and they get really good at it, and you just do lots of rehearsal, lots of repetition, there comes a time where eventually you then have to add that accountability piece.

And this is where all the purely positive training goes wrong.

And then people call me and they say, well, I don't think purely positive is enough for my dog, right? And I always, always interrupt and intervene when I hear someone say that, um, because I'm so, so passionate about this. And it's important to me that people understand there's nothing wrong with their dog. That's normal. It's not a problem with your dog, it's a problem with the training protocols, okay? So you can teach a dog how to do all of those things, but then there has to be a reason for them to do it when they don't feel motivated to do it.

Rather, that's because they're lazy, or it's because there's another dog they want to go check out. There's a squirrel they want to chase. So you have to explain to me why your dog is gonna opt to heel instead of go chase the squirrel. Why is your dog gonna opt to come back when called instead of running up to that other dog? Why? And if the only answer that you can come up with is because I have a reward, well, you fail, and you probably already know that <laugh>, because the dog's just gonna weigh their options, not because they're a bad dog, not because they're stubborn, right?

So everyone thinks their dog is stubborn. No, they're not. Your dog's not stupid. Your dog's not stubborn. Your dog's not bad. Your dog just says, "Treat, other dog," and they make a choice.

And a lot of times they don't even have to think about it, right? It's just, I see this, that's what I want, <laugh>. So, and you can't necessarily have a high enough reward, right? And so what that boils down to is you're just always in a tug of war with the environment, always. There is no reliability, there is no safety net. You just have to trust that your dog is going to prefer to come back over engaging with the environment or to do whatever it is that you're asking them to do. Um, and of course, they're not always gonna wanna do that.

08:00 — Kati addresses owners’ concerns that corrections will break their dog’s spirit.

I mean, come on.

You know, and that kind of strikes me funny too, now that I think about it, because one of the most common questions I get, or concerns that I get from people, is that they're really worried about breaking their dog's spirit. And if you could see me, I'm doing air quotes right now because it's, it's a silly concept to me that we're gonna break a dog's spirit. What, what does that even mean, really? Um, like we're just gonna crush them flat and suck their personality out of them. Um, no, but what I think is so funny is that not only will a correction not do that, but in a sense it's kind of what the purely positive training philosophy is trying to do, right?

So according to them, if you have a reward

And

You've done your training, right, you've put in all the time, right? Your dog will always choose the reward. Well, in order for that to happen, your dog is going to have to lose desire for all of the other stuff. It's the only way that would happen. The only way that your dog is going to choose to prioritize what you're asking over the environment without any kind of a punishment, without any kind of a correction, is to just not have any desire for anything else. That to me sounds like a crushed spirit <laugh>, okay? And that's not what we do.

We're just like, hey, you can like those things and there might be times I allow you to do those things,

But

If you don't do the thing I am asking you to do, there will be a consequence. And then you get a nice balance where your dog can do both, right? They can enjoy the environment, but they know they have to listen to you. That's not a crushed spirit, guys. You're not gonna break your dog's spirit. Um, but anyways, I'm getting off topic because that's what I do, <laugh>, that's what I always do. Um, the point here is that there has to be a motivator for your dog to choose to do something that they don't necessarily want to do at that moment.

And the only way to accomplish that is for there to be a negative consequence tied to the behavior of not complying. So now to go ahead and get back on topic, um, that's obedience, right? So you ask your dog to do something with a word that they've associated with a behavior, right? You ask them to do something, hopefully you train it to a reliable level and they do it. But even if you accomplish that and you do what we just described, right? You teach your dog the behavior, you reward it, you build it up, and then you correct non-compliance, um, and you get really reliable obedience, that's still

Not necessarily enough for you to get what you truly want.

So especially if you do have a dog that is aggressive or reactive, um, overexcitable, you know, any of those things, you can't rely on obedience to fix those things because it won't. Obedience will forever actually probably be difficult for your dog because you haven't addressed the behavioral aspects that need to be addressed. So if your dog wants to go after other dogs, that needs to be addressed, right? That's a behavior that needs to be punished and eliminated. If your dog goes crazy when someone comes to the door, that specifically needs to be addressed, right?

12:00 — Door reactivity and going to place are separate issues; Kati argues that teaching place…

So everybody, everybody, everybody at their go-home lesson thinks, oh, when someone comes to the door, I, I should just send my dog to place. No, that—it's incorrect. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but if your dog is reacting to the door, you can't skip the step of addressing that. So two totally different things, right? There's, don't react to the door, and there's, do go to place. Never, never, never, never confuse those. 'Cause one is the behavioral aspect and one is the obedience aspect.

So that is human nature trying to skip addressing the behavioral aspect, which requires a correction, right? Which again, is why this purely positive philosophy will not work. Just thought I would point that out, right? Because if you have a dog that goes nuts when someone comes to the door, you can look at them and yell place as many times as you want. They're probably not gonna go and you're gonna have to drag 'em, and then they're not gonna stay there. Um, and even, let's just say even if they did, let's say you got them to a point where they were barely able to do that, they're gonna be on there so tense, so escalated, and so excited that they're not gonna settle, and they're probably eventually gonna screw up and get off and go jump all over people or whatever it is that they do.

<laugh>.

Okay? So two different things happening there. It's like if your dog does something that you don't like, do not ask yourself what you should teach your dog to do in that moment. You have to address the unwanted behavior. You have to address that unwanted behavior. And then if you want to add an obedience aspect, you can. However, this also applies to trigger moments in the environment where there isn't necessarily an unwanted behavior, but your dog chooses to respond to an environmental rather than wait for you to give them instruction. So a good example of this is the door, right?

And this is why trainers make a big deal about the door. It's not just about making the door safe, although that is, um, obviously a benefit to this. It's not just about the mindset of the dog and who goes through the door first. It's not that I don't care who goes through the door first, but I don't want your dog making decisions based on things that are happening in the environment. I want them making decisions based on what you tell them you want in that moment. So the more you apply this philosophy across the board in day-to-day life, the more you start to wire your dog

To notice environmentals, to notice triggers in the environment, and not respond to them until you've given them the okay, right? Which then relieves you of the responsibility of having to manage them every second. And that's everybody's inclination is to manage their dog,

16:00 — Kati contrasts repeated doorway commands with expecting dogs to wait automatically when a door…

Right?

We see everybody go up to the door and they're pulling back on the leash, or they've got a treat and they're saying sit, and they're usually saying it over and over again. Um, you shouldn't have to say anything. So what we want is when your dog sees a door open, they do nothing. If you have to tell your dog to sit, to stay, to wait, or any of that,

You're,

These are two different mindsets that we can create. We can create the mindset that I'm autonomous, I move forward, I react to triggers, I respond to the environment,

Or

We can create the mindset that when I see an environmental, I just don't react to it unless I'm told it's time to. Which one sounds better? Now think about your dog in all the situations where he is kind of a monkey, right? If you didn't have to constantly be managing it with a leash, constantly be telling him what to do, wouldn't that be easier? So another example, you know, in those doors, it applies to coming out of the crate, going out the front door of the house for a walk, going in and out of the car, right?

Just because the door opens, I want that to be meaningless to you until I tell you you're supposed to go in or out of it.

Another example is food. So almost everybody when I meet them is having their dog wait for their food, okay? And that's good. I don't have any problem with that. I think that that's a step in the right direction for sure. Um, but here's again, the piece that people are really missing if you really want to get the maximum value out of that, is did you have to tell your dog to wait? If you have to tell your dog to wait, that is not nearly as good as your dog just knowing the expectation and doing it on their own.

And I understand most people don't know how to get that. Um, and I can tell you right now with any environmental in any of those situations, the way that you get that, the way that you start to change that mindset is let your dog make a decision and you provide the appropriate feedback. Okay? So that's the difference between behavioral and obedience. So an obedience approach would be, I have a bowl of food, and before I set it down, I'm gonna tell my dog to sit, right? And probably say stay, 'cause most people say stay, but I don't.

So I'm gonna give my dog a command, then I'm gonna put the food down. Also, I'm gonna stand right there in case he starts to make a mistake so that I can stop him <laugh>, and then I say, okay, or break, or whatever your word is to let him go and eat the food.

Um, and by the way, when we do that, we're also spring-loading the bowl there. So we're make, we're usually releasing the dog where when they're in a really escalated state, which isn't really the best, it's not my favorite, but the point is, the dog saw a resource, the dog saw an environmental trigger and responded to it, and you used obedience to try and change that. So that's one way to go. But if you really, truly want to cultivate the most control, the most change in your dog's mindset, you really want that communication and impulse control and, um, just overall changing your dog's mentality and attitude, frankly, right?

20:00 — Kati distinguishes interrupting premature food-bowl approaches from using stronger corrections for sock chewing, which…

So this is extra important for dogs that are pushy or aggressive. But for all dogs, if you really want maximum value, teach your dog that I have a bowl of food, I'm gonna set it on the floor. And if you go near it, I'm gonna say no, and then I'm gonna correct you.

Now, usually in that situation, it's not a super high correction, it's just high enough to interrupt them approaching the food bowl. Why? Because they're allowed to eat the food out of the food bowl. I just don't want them to do it right now, right? If I never wanted them to eat the food outta the food bowl, I would provide a very high correction <laugh>. If my dog is chewing on a sock, that's a very, very high correction because he's never allowed to chew on socks. And there's never a time that I'm gonna tell him he can do that.

I,

I don't want my dog to think it's just bad to eat food and that I don't allow eating the food. I just want him to, to learn that just because you see a bowl and I set it down, doesn't mean it's yours right now. Doesn't mean it's necessarily yours ever, right? But, so I'm gonna provide a correction on my e-collar that's just enough to interrupt that. And if you don't have an e-collar, you can do the same thing on a prong collar with a little leash pop. And I do this with puppies, guys, even little puppies, especially little puppies, because we're usually training all day with their food.

And I've got the food with me and I set the food down, and they're over there trying to weasel their way around me and get into the food bowl and just steal the food instead of <laugh> instead of working for the food. Um, and that's no good. And so it's, it's a correction. It's no and a bonk or no and a leash pop. And then we go back to working for the food. But it's just a totally, totally different mindset. It's a completely different approach, right? So with one, you're giving your dog obedience commands and then you're trying to enforce them usually by managing the dog, which isn't great.

The other way is you just let the dog make a choice and you just tell him if it's the right or wrong choice, and that's it. And this will get you two different dogs, totally, totally different. Um, one is gonna be a dog that is

A

More aware that you are in the leadership role, and that you are setting the boundaries and making the decisions. Um, they're also gonna be just more respectful across the board because it kind of instills that, uh, resources belong to you. Decisions are made by you. It's going to create a dog that defaults to impulse control, right? So you can start to wire your dog: trigger, move forward, trigger, move forward, trigger, move forward, right? I see an environmental, I move forward. Or you can start to wire your dog: trigger, I wait, trigger, I wait, environmental, I wait.

I'm not sure. I wait and see, what does my owner say? So you're essentially wiring your dog's default to be, if I see a trigger, if I see something in the environment, I am autonomous and I move forward unless my owner asks me to perform a trick. <laugh>, right? So, and that's no good for several reasons. It keeps your dog in a more autonomous, more excitable state where you then have to watch constantly and manage constantly. And if you miss something, well, too late. Now your dog's doing a thing you didn't want them to do,

Um, where in the other case your dog will be calmer, will default automatically to impulse control without you having to catch everything and tell them what to do. And you can see how that just

Completely, it's a different direction and you do end up in a different place. And that's why we talk so much about why small moments matter. And the thing is, most people are missing these moments all day long. So we talk about doors, we talked about food, those are the big obvious ones. But all day long we see people's dogs making choices about what to fixate on, what to get excited about, what to move forward and approach. And we just miss it. We completely miss it, and we lose ground when we do that. You can gain so much leverage by addressing those moments all day.

25:00 — Kati attributes part of board-and-train’s effectiveness to consistent feedback on dogs’ everyday decisions.

No, you're never gonna be perfect. And sometimes it's gonna be a judgment call and that's fine. But if you're just letting your dog go all day without that feedback, without that intervention, without consequences where appropriate, um, without redirection, without just general feedback about their decisions and what is okay and what isn't okay, what is allowed and what isn't allowed, you're losing so, so much ground, um, that that alone could be the difference. So sometimes it's less about practicing your obedience commands and sometimes it's more about just giving your dog feedback throughout the day. And I really believe that's one of the reasons that the board-and-train is so, so effective, uh, as your dog is getting that feedback, right?

If we go out on a walk and your dog is fixating on something, we tell them not to,

Right? Little tap, tap, don't worry about it. Those little, just those small moments of feedback, those small pieces of communication are huge. Shapes a completely different dog. It's like, don't worry about the other dog over there. You don't have to wait till your dog chases the squirrel. You know they're thinking about it. Tell them not to <laugh>, right? We don't have to fixate on things that can't go anywhere good. Um, or dog gets super excitable when you come home. Or, I mean, I could think of a million instances, uh, where a dog is doing something.

And I think part of it is because these things seem so innocuous. Um, but you gotta remember, these aren't always things that we are lighting the dog up like a firework for. They're just things we're interrupting. We're just giving them a tap on the shoulder or a low correction. We're just saying, hey, that's not what we do. Or you don't need to do that, or don't worry about that. Um, and just really shaping the brain over time to not respond so dramatically to environmentals. But that's the difference, guys, between obedience and behavior. And that's why it's so important.

If there's an unwanted behavior, you have to address that directly. You cannot use obedience to overcome that. You can use obedience in addition to addressing it directly, right? But your dog jumps on people, you have to correct them for that.

You have to provide a meaningful correction for jumping on people. Your dog charges the door, you have to correct them for that, okay? And then you can add place to their repertoire or to that sequence after the correction if you want to, right? But it will not fix those problems. It will not eliminate those problems. And you'll have a dog that you always have to tell them what to do. You always have to manage them. You always have to help them. You always have to tell them what to do instead of creating a dog that just knows

28:00 — Kati recommends a loose leash, allowing choices, and responding with approval or correction rather…

And life gets easier. And then you can actually like let your hair down a little bit and involve your dog. And like before you know it, you don't even have to think about it. That should happen relatively quickly. And the truth is, most people, when they're telling their dog to sit, they don't really care if the dog is sitting. It's not that they want the dog to sit, it's that they don't want the dog to do something else. They don't want the dog to advance on the food bowl. They don't want the dog to jump, they don't want the dog to go through the door uninvited, right?

So in all of those things that I just mentioned, we're using sit as a Band-Aid and it never comes off. You'll have to do it forever. Um, so highly, highly recommend that you start thinking about things a little bit differently. Give your dog put, keep your dog on a leash if you're working on this stuff. But keep it loose and just let your dog make a choice and then give the feedback, right? It's either good or it's no, followed by a correction, right? And that's how you start to cultivate real change, um, and really change your dog's mindset for the better.

Alright guys, that's it for today's episode. Thanks for joining me, and I look forward to next time.