There’s Always A Problem When My Dog Is Around Other Dogs

00:00 — Kati asks listeners to subscribe before discussing common problems involving dogs around other dogs.

Welcome to Off Leash and Unfiltered Trigger Warning. I'm Kati Peppe, delivering the Truth in Dog Training.

Hey everybody, this is your host, Kati Peppe. Before we jump in, I just wanted to take a quick second and remind you to hit the subscribe button because that helps us so, so, so much. We appreciate every subscribe and follow, and we have so much valuable information we wanna share with you. So we don't want you to miss an episode. Without further ado, let's jump in. Hey everyone, thanks for joining me today. Uh, I've got my coffee going and I'm ready to run my mouth. <laugh>. Um, as you know, I try to talk about stuff that, um, we're talking about every day with our customers, and one of the things I hear a lot, and honestly I don't do a ton of this, it's not really, it's not our specialty, it's not what we do.

Most of the programs we're doing too are like fairly short, right?

So, um, our bread and butter is kind of off-leash obedience and also behavior modification, but in a budget friendly manner, right? So it might not seem like it, like I'm not saying our programs are cheap, but oftentimes we're doing, you know, three week programs for dogs that might, you know, honestly, if you want a full rehab and you want your dog in like the best space possible might benefit from a four to eight week program. And we just don't really do that. We do four week programs sometimes, um, especially with dogs that have something like severe separation anxiety, we'll often do four weeks or severe fear related issues.

We might do four weeks, but usually we have dogs for two weeks or three weeks. And I often have people coming to me, um, saying that their dog has issues interacting with other dogs. And I mean, I have a lot to say on that subject.

Um, there's so many factors to consider when it comes to that, but I mean, if you have a dog who wants to kill other dogs, you know, and <laugh> you, you want your dog to be able to make friends with other dogs, that's not something that I'm gonna fix in three weeks and it's not something I would even try to fix in three weeks. Um, rather if I did have your dog and it was for that short of time, we're gonna be focused on getting your dog to just, nevermind other dogs, follow your lead, listen to you ignore them so you can actually take your dog out and go places with them.

You can go to a cafe, you can go on a walk and you don't have any problems. But as far as your dog, like making friends with other dogs, it's not something we're really gonna do.

Um, you know, and I think most people aren't setting the bar that high for their dogs anyway. But anyway, kind of what I wanted to talk about today was the dogs that are more middle of the road, right? It's not, it's not as though they wanna go and have another dog for breakfast. Um, but a lot of times we'll have a dog do a two or three week program and go home. And we don't necessarily even notice anything when the dog's here. They're just a normal dog and things seem normal and, and they are normal, right?

But they go home and, and the owners are putting them in different situations, like maybe situations we wouldn't put them in. We're gonna talk about that, but, and they're experiencing some quote unquote issues right? When their dog is with other dogs. So I wanna dig into that a little bit 'cause I think it's super, super, super common.

04:00 — Kati introduces differences in dog personalities and appropriate situations for social interaction.

Um, and let's talk about, you know, the different personality types dogs have and what's acceptable behavior and what isn't, and what's acceptable for situations for you to put your dog in and what isn't. Um, because those are all factors that need to be considered. So let me start by saying something I've only said about a billion times, which is that not all dogs are social. Not all dogs wanna be buddy buddy with other dogs, guys. Everybody wants to think their dog does, and everybody thinks there's something wrong with their dog if they don't. No, this is normal, honestly, in my opinion, especially after your dog moves into maturity and they're not a puppy anymore, in my opinion, the most normal dogs usually aren't super interested in quote unquote playing with other dogs, right?

Other dogs can be around and that's fine. And they might go get a sniff and get, say hi, but they don't necessarily want to engage and play.

And I'm not saying there's something wrong with your dog or they're not normal if they do wanna play, of course not. But I think it's super, super, super common and super, super, super normal for dogs to just be like, Hey, there's another dog. I'm gonna go check 'em out and smell 'em, and then I'm gonna move on and go do my own thing. That's normal, okay? Now, some dogs want to play and have a good time, and some dogs take it to a level where they expect all the other dogs to be the same way, right?

It's like not, it's not just, I want to play with you, it's, you have to play with me. Okay? That's not okay <laugh>. And so that I think is where a lot of the problems come in. And then we have dogs that are obviously at the opposite end of the spectrum, right?

They're like, I do not want to play with you. So if you get those two opposites together, obviously that's gonna create a problem. And I really think that that is where we see a lot of the problems come in. So like a lot of our clients that have, they have, you know, pretty average behaved dogs, right? They have their quirks, but they're, they're pretty typical dogs. Uh, you know, generally speaking, um, they're just doing a two or a three week program. Um, they're not here for anything super, super serious most of the time. And, but they go home and they're having problems with other dogs because they're on one side of the spectrum and they're being put in with dogs that are on the other side of the spectrum, right?

And the thing is, no matter how much you train your own dog, you also have to worry about the other dogs, right?

And there is nothing you can do about the other dogs. So that really is the biggest factor in all of this. It's like, even if you have a dog who's generally pretty good around dogs, doesn't, you know, isn't aggressive, isn't trying to go after dogs, um, you're still gonna have a huge problem. If your dog isn't super social, isn't super interested in making friends and playing all the time, and you put them in with dogs that won't leave them alone. You put them in with dogs that are high energy, that are in their face, that are pestering them, um, you're going to have a problem, right?

So that's the sort of thing you kind of have to think about. Um, I think we put unreasonable expectations on our dogs just in our head. For whatever reason our dogs should like to play, right? And if they don't, then there's something wrong with them.

And it's like, no, that's actually normal. That's actually normal. There's nothing wrong with your dog, right? And so people think we're so like militant and harsh being like, you shouldn't just bring your dog to the dog park or doggy daycare. You shouldn't just throw your dog out there with random dogs that you don't know. Um, you shouldn't go meet people on the street. It's like, no, we're not. We just know that dogs, you know, culturally speaking, they're being treated like they're teddy bears. They're just always supposed to be okay with everyone and everybody and everything, and all the dogs and all the people and all the strangers.

08:00 — Kati warns against throwing dogs into dog parks or daycare with random, unknown dogs.

They're supposed to be fine at the vet. No, they're not. They're like living, breathing, autonomous animals, um, with their own unique wiring. And they don't, a lot of dogs just don't give a shit about other dogs. And frankly, I like that. I like that quality of my dog. I don't want a dog that goes crazy to go be with other dogs. No thank you.

No thanks. But here's the thing. So if you are in this boat where you're like, okay, I want my dog to have dog friends, you need to step back and you need to say, does my dog want fucking dog friends? 'cause maybe they don't, and that's okay, right? And it doesn't mean that you can't take your dog anywhere or include them in anything. It just means that you need to be proactive and advocate for your dog, whatever that situation looks like. Because here's the thing, nobody else is gonna do it. You have to do it.

You have to advocate for your dog. So if you are going over to your best friend's house and your best friend has two crazy dogs that don't really listen, you know, it doesn't mean they're bad dogs, but they don't really listen. Or maybe they are <laugh>, but maybe they're just a little crazy, a little high energy, and they don't really have control over them, right?

Because the dogs don't have any formal training. Um, and so they just kind of run a up. It's like, okay, but then if you go over there with your dog, and your dog is the type of dog that doesn't mind dogs being around, but doesn't want dogs jumping all over him, pestering him when he is already said he is not interested in playing, you're gonna have a problem. Why wouldn't that turn into a problem? Right? And it doesn't mean there's something wrong with your dog. So there's nothing I can do about that. There's nothing you can do about that except not put your dog in that situation because it's not a good situation.

So there is, again, there's no magic easy button for this, right? There's no like, fix the problem. I want my dog to just tolerate everything. No, this is just not how it works.

11:00 — Successful dog friendships require every owner to control and manage their own dog.

So what I would do if I wanted my dog to be able to be friends with those people's dogs, it's really out of your control, right? It's like that's a conversation with you and your friend. Like if it's equally as important to your friend, then they need to get control of their dogs there. There's just no other way to do that, right? Because you can train your dog all day long till you're blue in the face and you can have a great handle on your dog, but it doesn't matter if you take them and you put them in a situation where other dogs are out of control and in their business.

What do you want that to look like?

What do you want that to look like? Because there's just no good outcome there, because it's not acceptable, it's not acceptable behavior for other dogs to treat your dog that way. And I think that's the bottom line, really. Now, if your dog is an asshole, when it's not called for, then you should step in and you should tell 'em that. So here's a good example. I actually had someone ask me about this the other day, and I don't actually know exactly what they're seeing, so I'm gonna ask them to expound on that when I see them next.

But, um, they did mention that it's just, it's too much. They're having some kind of an issue when their dog is with other dogs. And I've never had an issue with their dog and other dogs here. But like I said, when we're here, there's not a lot of free time with dogs roaming around and mingling.

Like it's very limited. Um, if there is, it's like we're just going out to potty and I might have multiple dogs, or, you know, they're in, they're riding in the car together and everyone's required to be calm, right? Or they're on a walk together and everyone's required to be calm, or we're going in and out of the training center on a leash. Um, there's not a lot of just putting dogs together with for free time. There might be some, depending on the specific dogs, their personality, their training that they have under their belt and all this stuff.

Um, but in those contexts, right? Being on place with other dogs around being on a leash with other dogs, riding in the car with other dogs, even going out to potty with other dogs, hadn't seen anything concerning at all. But they were obviously experiencing something that was causing them a problem and some stress.

So I'll have to ask them more about that. Um, but he was dropping his dog off for boarding. So while his dog is here, I said, okay, I'm gonna turn him out with my dogs. You know, because I haven't seen anything super concerning, right? If I had, we're not gonna just turn 'em out there and see what happens. Um, <laugh>, we would take some precautions, but I, I hadn't so turn 'em out with my dogs and we're just going for a little walk. I have a very long driveway, big wooded area dogs love to run around out there and, and check things out and sniff around.

14:00 — She describes dogs walking freely together while one dog became annoyed by another’s repeated…

So we went out and they were all free doing their own thing. And we were walking a little bit and I said, all right, I'm just gonna watch and I'm gonna see what happens. And this particular dog does get very, very hacky.

You can tell the arousal is very, very high, which does make things tense. And honestly, one of my dogs is also very, um, he gets very aroused and, and kind of tense, but not as much as this guy that was here for boarding. And so I don't think too much of that, right? And I kind of let them just, they did sniff each other and that was fine. If they were kind of face to face and it was going on too long, I'd interrupt it. 'cause I just feel like it's too long to let that tension sit.

I don't like that. Um, and so I'll kind of interrupt it. Um, but it was fine, you know, and we're walking along and then my dog does this thing where he likes to go to the bathroom and then he likes to spread it everywhere by kicking the, the earth around. Um, which is common. A lot of dogs do that. And I'm not the biggest fan, but, you know, whatever, we're outside, he does it. I don't care. Um, however, when he did that, that got this dog upset, um, and I saw him posture and put his head over my dog's shoulders and right there, I told him no.

And I corrected him. And honestly, when I corrected him, I didn't get enough of a reaction. So I corrected him higher.

Um, and he squeaked. And so then at least I knew I got my point across because I'm not gonna let him do that and see where it goes, right? So whatever the case may be, he either was like posturing, you know, kind of telling my dog we're gonna talk about the hierarchy. Like, you can't do that. Or, or he is cherishing 'cause he doesn't like the arousal and the intense energy. It doesn't matter. Whatever it is, that's a conversation that is not allowed at my house. So I did actually see a little bit of an issue there, right?

And if I had let that slide, who knows where it would've gone. Um, but my dog is generally very, very good at this point with other dogs, different types of personalities, um, when things like that happen, he just looks right at me and he knows, um, not to react to it and he won't.

Um, in fact, if in the event that another dog snaps at him, he's a big chicken and he will run as long and far away as he <laugh> as he can to get away. Um, but my dog, generally speaking, he has a very confident energy about him. He usually has his tail right up and in a lot of arousal, but he, um, he responds very, very well, um, to other dog's shenanigans. But because of his nature, he, he does tend to trigger a little bit more of a reaction sometimes from dogs. So it's kind of an interesting combination.

Um, but so I did correct that. And, and that's, you know, it goes both ways, right? You need to advocate for your dog, but you also need to tell your dog when he is being a jerk. But it's like, how much do you expect your dog to tolerate, right?

So in this case, the dog that was here for boarding, my dog didn't do anything to him. My dog was doing something he didn't like, but it wasn't him, it wasn't any of his business. So you can see the difference there right now, if my dog was going up and targeting him in some way and continually pestering him to play, especially if he was actually touching him, then yeah, I would expect the dog to respond in a not so kind manner, right? But you can't just freak out because you don't like someone else's energy. You don't like what they're doing.

18:00 — Friendly dogs can have breaking points and should not be forced to tolerate irritating…

Um, that's not cool, right? So some of this stuff too is a judgment call. It's not always gonna be black and white, but you can't expect your dog to just tolerate whatever other dogs do to them. Like that's not, that will never be okay. And that's not a problem you will ever be able to rectify through training your dog.

I mean, I suppose you could, you could try to teach your dog to tolerate, um, other dogs no matter what they do to them. But honestly, what kind of sadistic jerk is gonna do that, right? Who's gonna say, all right, I'm gonna put you out here in a group of dogs that are gonna bother you, pester you, accost you and you have to just deal with it, right? Nobody wants to do that to their dog. I wouldn't think most of the time what's happening is people just have this idea in their head that the dogs should just get along, right?

They should always get along. And if they don't, then there's something wrong with their dog. And it's like, no, maybe there's something wrong with the other dogs and maybe you need to be protecting your dog from them.

Maybe your dog just isn't interested in playing. Or maybe they're being a sheriff or as I think was in this case, maybe it's boo, right? But also if you're putting your dog into situations where other dogs are pestering them, are bothering them, are bullying them, then your dog's going to develop a chip on his shoulder. Your dog's probably going to develop a little bit of an asshole streak, right? Because they've learned they have to, they've learned when other dogs are around, it's problematic. They've learned that they get bothered, pestered, bullied, annoyed. They've learned, nobody advocates for them.

They've learned that they have to play whether they want to or not. They've learned that other dogs wanna talk about the hierarchy. They've learned all these things, right? Because we are putting them in those situations around those other unstable dogs with no rules and boundaries.

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And now on with the show, which is why we hate doggy daycare. <laugh>.

21:00 — Kati criticizes dog parks because random groups inevitably include dogs that bother or provoke…

I hate to keep hammering on that one. Um, and dog parks too, but I just can't say it enough. It's like, yeah, I get maybe your dog does like the dog park, but nobody likes being bothered by jerks. And that's going to happen at the dog park. There's no avoiding it and it's going to happen at doggy daycare. There's no avoiding it. And I don't care what they say about their supposed quote unquote structure or their rules. They don't have any rules. They think they have rules, they don't. You wanna know what their rules are?

I'll tell you what their rules are. It's when a dog actually gets in a fight, they separate them and they isolate the dog that bit first, right? And probably most of the time, the dog that bit first is the one that was just sticking up for himself. So that's it. Those are their rules. And if you're comfortable with that and putting your dog in that situation, great, go for it. More power to you. But do me a favor, don't board 'em here because I don't want your kennel cough and I don't want your dog's baggage <laugh>.

And most of our customers don't. They don't go to those places unless they have to for some reason. Um, which is good because I really, really, truly believe very little good comes out of it. But you guys, when we're talking about social situations with dogs, um, it's a lot more complicated than just, my dog is friendly. My dog is not friendly, right? So many people say that, and I can't think of a more meaningless statement. It is meaningless, it means nothing. So what? I'm friendly, okay? But there's lots of people I don't wanna spend my day with <laugh>.

And there are situations you could put me in where I would flip my lid. So what if I'm friendly? That doesn't mean I don't have a breaking point. It doesn't mean I'll tolerate your bullshit just because I'm friendly. What does that mean? Every dog's personality is so insanely unique that every time you put them with a different dog, you get a different mix and you have to expect you're gonna get a different result. It's like a science experiment. Every time you put two personalities together, you don't know what's gonna happen. So stop expecting your dog to just love other dogs, okay?

They don't, and like I said, most levelheaded normal dogs, they're fine with other dogs being around, but they're not obsessed with them, right? If you ask me, that's unbalanced, right? I'm not saying wanna play. Wanting to play is a bad thing. A lot of dogs wanna play. It's fine, especially when they're younger. But if your dog is obsessed with other dogs, that's a problem. That's not healthy. It's not okay. It's not normal.

24:00 — Kati considers dogs obsessively focused on other dogs unbalanced, even when they appear friendly.

It takes not normal with a grain of salt, right? It's natural, but it's not acceptable, okay? It's like, yeah, guarding food is normal too and natural, right? Not acceptable. Being obsessed with other dogs, not okay. And you, what that will do is it will take a dog who is fine being around dogs and it will turn him into a jerk or an insanely reactive nervous dog, right? But oftentimes it'll take a dog that's pretty good with other dogs and it will turn him into a jerk because he's used to being piled on by dogs that are obsessed.

No, your dog probably doesn't like that. Shocking, right? Do yourself a favor and be a little more proactive, a little more, um, use some more discretion when it comes to what positions we're gonna put our dog in, right? So a lot of dogs just can't handle a certain level of arousal either they go out, they're fine, they start playing, things are fine, the arousal starts to escalate, suddenly it's not so fine anymore, right? So if you do our program, you should know how to control arousal and you should have control of your dog no matter what's happening.

So you can always call them outta that and shut that off.

But then inevitably the next thing the person will say is, but then the other dogs come over and they wanna keep playing. It's like, okay, so think about that. What do you want me to do about that? What do you think you are gonna do about that? Nothing. Right? The only thing that there is to do about that is to have a conversation with the humans because this is not a you problem, this is a them problem. And so it's either a conversation with those humans or it's keeping your dog outta that situation, right? Because here's the thing, we can't take your dog and change their personality so that they love being bothered.

<laugh>. We can't take your dog's personality and change it so that they can get maximally aroused. And it never becomes a problem. They can just have unbridled arousal without ever having it morph into anything serious, right?

And it's funny because everyone says they don't wanna change their dog's personality. They're so afraid of changing their dog's personality, but then they're like, why can't we change my dog's personality? And I'm not saying anyone has ever asked me that, right? But if you really get down to brass tacks, that's what they're asking for. They're like, well, why can't we just change this thing about my dog? It's like, Nope, this is who your dog is. I can't change that. But what we can do is we can get your dog in a better head space. We can get him making better choices.

We can get him listening to you. We can teach you how to control arousal, how to shut things off, how to get your dog to listen to you in tough situations. But what we can't do is just change who your dog is, right? So then we've taken you and we've put you in control of your dog as much as we can anyway, right? But we will. It's so hard to accept the idea that we will never have control of other people and other dogs.

28:00 — She recommends building a relationship where the dog trusts its owner to advocate and…

So you build the best relationship with your dog as you can where everything you say is non-negotiable. Your dog trusts you to advocate for them, and you have control over their behavior, even in challenging situations. But there's still going to be that aspect of I need to be wise about the situations I put my dog in. And that might mean that there are some situations we typically engage in that we're not going to anymore. Because no matter how much work I do with my own dog, I can't control theirs. You just can't. But I think oftentimes there is a combination of dogs, you know, um, being pestered, being bullied, being bothered, but then they develop, um, like I said, that real asshole streak because that's what they're accustomed to, right?

So they've had to be a jerk. Or maybe not. Maybe your dog's just a jerk.

Like that's normal. That happens too. Um, but I think we often see a little bit of both, right? So it's like, yes, you need to tell your dog when they're being a jerk, but you also need to advocate for your dog if the other dogs are being jerks, which is super, super, super common, right? And if you do have dogs that you want your dog to be, be dog friends with, like as long as they're enjoying it and you're not having a problem, that's totally fine, right? But if you're having a problem, then you need to say, okay, well what is the problem?

Is it my dog? Is it their dog? Um, and you, you do need to step in and tell your dog if he's being a jerk. But you also need to advocate. And I know I keep saying that, but it's like that's the piece that's always missing that people struggle with.

Um, and there's just not, there is no fix, there's no training fix for that, right? There's no training I can do that's gonna make the other dogs not a problem. There just isn't. And we've had a lot of folks that have come to the conclusion, I guess we can't go over there anymore, right? And so I really, I urge you if you have good friends with dogs, you know, have an honest conversation with them about their dog's behavior. Like it's in their best interest to get some training and to have control over their dog. You know, and maybe these are people you could go hiking with, you could go camping with, right?

And your dogs can come and everybody can have a good time because you're all on the same page. So we have some clients like that who have been through our board and trains and our private lessons and they're good friends.

Dogs come to us and go through our programs and now they're able to to watch each other's dogs when they go away and they maintain each other's training for them and they're able to go places and do things together. And everyone has control of their dogs and everybody advocates for their dogs. And everyone's kind of on the same page, which is like the best case scenario, right? And the problem is not everybody wants to do that. And that's okay, right? And you can't make 'em do that. But then you can't put your dog in that situation if their dog is a problem, right?

And not every dog needs to go through, right? I recommend every dog goes through formal training and be super under control. 'cause obviously I think that's the best way to live with your dog. But not everybody does. Not everybody wants to.

And it's like, that's fine. It's free country. You don't have to train your dog. But I can't just keep bringing my dog into this situation where your dogs are open, his face bothering him, not taking his cues, not respecting his cues, they're not listening to you, they're not listening to me. Um, it's just not a healthy situation to, to keep going into. And it is probably going to escalate into a real problem. And that's what we see. It does escalate into a real problem. I have one person whose dog, um, they have multiple dogs, but one of their dogs started attacking the other one, but only when they were at this friend's house with their crazy dogs.

And it's like, don't go into that situation anymore, right? There's no level of training we can do that's going to make your dogs tolerate that level of chaos from the other dogs.

There's just nothing we can do about that. So a lot of factors you have to consider when we're talking about these social situations. And if you have a dog that doesn't do great a lot of the time with other dogs, I mean obviously don't put them in situations where you are not sure, right? Or you're unsafe. Um, you feel like someone could get hurt. Like, don't do that. Get some training, get some help. Um, use muzzles. Um, when things are, you think they're okay, but you're a little worried they might not be. It's like there are ways to do it, right?

33:00 — Kati recommends training, muzzles, and caution whenever an interaction feels unsafe or likely to…

Um, but the way we like to do it, you know, when we're talking about building relationships with other dogs is too many people rush it. It's rush, rush, rush it, throw 'em together. And it's the worst thing you can do guys. 'cause when dogs first see each other, first smell each other, that is the highest arousal, highest tension, um, part of the entire interaction.

And so the first thing that should happen is nothing. Dogs just share space. And I've said this before, like if I bring a new dog into my house, like even if it's my own dog, when I brought my pug home as a puppy, he didn't go interact with my other dog. No, they were in crates. Um, I had my older dog on place a lot. They were on leashes. They did not hang out together. They don't need to. They need to get used to seeing this other dog around and seeing it's no big deal, right?

They see 'em, they smell 'em, they don't care about 'em. Once you get to that point, that might be a good time for everyone to say hi. But it's the first thing everybody wants to do. Dogs are running around like crazy. Tongues are flying, ears are up, eyes are big.

Saliva's flying. They see another dog, they run right up to it. They sniff directly in their face. That is a recipe for a problem. If there's going to be a problem, it's going to be them, right? 'cause you're taking dogs that are in the highest arousal place they can be, the most tension there can be, and you're allowing them to come together in that moment is the wrong time to do it. I'm not saying there'll always be a problem, I'm just saying that is the highest risk moment. Instead, have your dogs rehearse doing something else, like just sitting still on a leash and not caring about that other dog, right?

And I'm not giving you instructions to go meet strange dogs. This is what I tell people when they have friends and family with dogs and they're going to be coming together for an event, um, you know, for a get together, together. They're going camping, they're coming to stay for the holidays. It's like maybe your dogs never meet and that's fine, right? But if they're both pretty easygoing dogs and you want them to meet, just do some other stuff first. You know, if your family, if they're gonna be there for a week, your dogs don't have to meet on day one.

36:00 — New visiting dogs should decompress before meeting, rather than being rushed into greetings or…

Spend that day just letting everyone decompress, getting used to the smells, the sights, the environment.

They don't have to go play on day one. Stop rushing it. And then when they do meet, you don't want it to be in a corner of the house where they feel trapped or they're on a tight leash. We want it to be more of an open space. We want things to be relaxed. Um, that's your best chance of success. But also consider size difference too. So if you aren't sure how easygoing the dogs are and you have a big size difference, just don't do it guys. Like you don't have to. It's just not worth it.

So I think it would benefit everyone to stop feeling like their dog has to meet other dogs, has to get along to other dogs, has to have relationships with other dogs, has to be able to roam free in the yard with everybody's dog that we know. No, they don't. It's okay if you don't do that. It's okay if you say, when other people come over with their dogs, I'm gonna put my dog away. It's okay if you say, when I go to someone's house and they have dogs, I just leave my dog at home. That is okay.

It's also okay to say, you know what? I want my dog to have a relationship with this dog. This is someone that I spend a lot of time with in building a relationship, right? But you have to put some effort into it. Like to expect that you're just gonna turn your dog loose with this person's dog or dogs and everything should just be fine. And if everything's not fine that it's automatically your dog's fault. No, it's a lot more complicated than that. And I do think you should watch your dog and you should tell him if he's a prick <laugh>.

But someone has to be doing the same for the other dogs. And what I find is they're usually not. They're usually not. So that's something you have to recognize and address yourself, whether that be a conversation or it be just avoiding that situation. And that's okay.

It's okay to avoid that situation. That doesn't make you avoiding the problem because it's not your problem. It's their problem. And you can't, can't solve it for them if they don't want to, right? But every dog is very unique. Some dogs do better in small group settings. Some dogs do better in big group settings than others. Some dogs get overwhelmed, right? But if you have a dog that's either really nervous and anxious around other dogs, or if you have a dog that gets really highly aroused and tense, it's like throwing them into a big group.

Especially a big group of untrained dogs. It's just silly. Don't do that.

Don't do that. But your dog, you know, if you're having an issue, your dog is telling you that they have an issue. And I've told this story before too, but I had a, a client whose dog used to go to doggy daycare, and then he came here for training and then she got panicked because he didn't seem to like doggy daycare. And it's like, well first of all, he's just coming into maturity, right? He was right around that one year mark. Um, so that's the time we'll start to really see their true colors. But it was strongly, strongly, my impression from the beginning, he never really liked engaging with other dogs.

He was fine with other dogs around. Totally. Levelheaded did a great job, right? But he wasn't interested in being bothered by other dogs. And I could see that from the beginning. But he was accustomed to being in an environment where it was forced on him. He was going to have to play and run around with the other dogs and be accept being bothered by the other dogs. And he did it fairly well. But like I said, he was coming into maturity where maybe that was gonna change, right? Whether they did the training or not, I don't think it would've mattered.

I think they would've seen that transition.

Um, but especially after a training program where he, he was like, oh wow, this is really nice. Like being in an environment where all the dogs are under control and nobody's allowed to bother me if I don't wanna be bothered. This is pretty cool, right? And then you throw him back into that crazy, chaotic, frantic environment now that he's a little bit older, a little bit more mature, more hormones are flowing and he has experience with what it's like to be advocated for and to be around dogs that are not crazy and frantic and chaotic and pushy and bossy and all these things.

41:00 — A dog became reactive after returning to chaotic daycare conditions following calmer, controlled experiences.

And you throw him back in that environment and he's like, what The actual f right? I'm not surprised by that. And the human's inclination is always, oh, the training ruined him. No, no.

How is training going to make your dog not like being around other dogs if he likes being around other dogs? We don't do anything like that here. We don't teach your dog to hate other dogs farthest thing from it. We teach them. Other dogs are are cool. They're not gonna bother you, right? Because they're allowed to sniff and say hi. If there are moments where we're out pottying riding in the car, whatever, out in the yard coming into the house, dogs are together. They often sniff, they often say hi, right? But if I see a dog who's like continually being invasive or trying to play and the other dog doesn't want to, I step in and say, nog it off.

Dog gets used to that goes back into doggy daycare where things are a fucking mess and doesn't like it. Yeah, no kidding. And now you can tell he doesn't like it. Well, we're gonna put this in the not a problem category, right? Because there's nothing wrong with your dog. Your dog's still happy to play. He plays with you, he plays with your friend's dogs and you're not seeing any problems there. It's just when you send him to doggy daycare, Hmm, let me think about this. No, there's nothing to think about. It's a shitty environment. Don't send your dogs there <laugh>.

And there might be some good ones, but I've never, I've never seen one. I've never heard of one.

If we start one, this will be a good one. Something I'd like to do down the road. Um, if we have the resources, I think it'd be great. Not because I think doggy daycare is super necessary. Like if you're just going to work for the day, your dog should be able to tolerate being home. But it would be productive. 'cause we would do training with your dog, right? That'd be great. Something I'm considering. But, um, socializing, quote unquote, right? In a way that actually involves interaction, which by the way, socialization for us is like dogs are just around other dogs.

Maybe they're interacting, maybe they're not, right? Socializing doesn't mean you have to go play, you have to go play, you have to go play. Maybe they don't wanna <laugh>, it's just being around other dogs, which sometimes might mean they're on a leash with you and they're never interacting.

44:00 — Kati defines socialization as calmly being around dogs, not necessarily playing with them.

That's socializing. Now, a lot of trainers will say, that's the only way to socialize. It's like, no, I think socializing can be interacting with other dogs too, right? I just don't recommend doing that with dogs. You don't know. And that's why, because if that other dog is a jerk, what are you gonna do about it? Are you really gonna expect your dog to just put up with it? No. And let me tell you, here's the thing, most other dogs are jerks because they don't have training and they don't have owners that know what they're doing or that care.

There are dogs that are pushy, that are invasive, that are overexcited, that are outta control, that don't listen. And their owners just wanna see 'em having a good time, right? It doesn't mean that they mean to be a jerk, the people, but they are kind to being a jerk, right? Because they let their dog just run over other dogs, whether they know it or not. And from their perspective, there's something wrong with your dog If your dog's not interested in that and there isn't something wrong with your dog <laugh>. So I wanna leave you with just this.

Like, if your dog can just be chill and not care that there are other dogs around, you are golden. That's amazing.

You have a problem. When your dog is obsessed with other dogs in some way, that's a problem. The other problem you could have is if other dogs are obsessed with yours and there's no boundaries for them, right? But that's not your problem. That's someone else's problem. Don't let it become your problem. Hey guys, thanks for joining us today. I really hope you enjoyed the show. If there's a specific topic you'd like to hear discussed, you can send that to me directly via email or fan mail. Just jump down into the show notes. That information will be there for you.

I really look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for supporting the show and I look forward to next time.