You Can’t Teach Your Dog Things That Aren’t True

00:00 — Kati opens by asking listeners to subscribe and framing the episode around truth in…

Welcome to Off Leash and Unfiltered Trigger Warning. I'm Kati Peppe, delivering the Truth in Dog Training.

Hey everybody, this is your host, Kati Peppe. Before we jump in, I just wanted to take a quick second and remind you to hit the subscribe button because that helps us so, so, so much. We appreciate every subscribe and follow, and we have so much valuable information we wanna share with you. So we don't want you to miss an episode. Without further ado, let's jump in. Hey everyone, thanks for joining me today. Um, missed an episode. Apologize for that. Um, as some of you may know, I kind of live life going a hundred miles an hour all the time just on this racetrack.

And sometimes when you're doing that, you blow out a tire or four <laugh> and so and so. You need to just like, you need more than a pit stop, right? You need like whole, whole uh, whole bunch of repairs, <laugh>. And so, um, I went away for a couple days.

It was really nice. We had a good time, actually did have a dog with us, training dog. Uh, Esme was with us. Um, but she was very easy and did a great job and I did get a little bit of time to work with her on some things while we were away. So it was good. Um, and you know, when you have kids and they're always sick, it's like you have that to contend with. So my daughter's got the flu now, um, and so I kind of feel like a sitting duck. I'm just waiting to get sick and I actually just got better from being sick.

So <laugh>, that's, that is life right now. But other than that, things are great. Happy to be, uh, back in the office and I'm gonna get some podcast episodes out. So today I wanna talk about our favorite question, um, that we get as dog trainers. <laugh>,

Can you sense the sarcasm if you can't? You don't know me very well. So our favorite question, which, you know, sometimes I get this question in the phone consultation, but more often than not, it's when people are here and they've sat down for their first private lesson or for their go home lesson, if their dog did a board and train. And we're talking about the eco and the prong collar, like all the equipment and the habits that you should get into with all of that equipment to be the most successful. And the first question everybody says is, when can we take the e-collar off?

Or is there a time when we can eventually just take the eco off? So let's dive into that because I think that is on everybody's mind when they're eco training or they're considering eco training. And the truth is, there's no black and white answer to that.

03:00 — She explains there is no universal timeline and gives a general short answer: usually,…

Um, but I mean, generally speaking, if you want the short answer, no, leave your e-collar on <laugh>. Okay? So it's complicated, right? As everything is. Here's the thing. It's like, does my dog, not my pug <laugh>, my actual dog <laugh>, does he need to wear his eco at least when I'm around? No. Will he listen? Yeah, but most people aren't dog trainers and most people aren't going to follow our instructions to a t. Um, and sometimes depending on how challenging the dog is, there's more of a skillset needed and not everyone's gonna be able to do it.

So my advice is like, just leave your fucking e-collar on, like what is the rush to get it off right? The problem, the goal is to get rid of the problems. So if your eco does that, just leave it on, guys. What the fuck is the difference?

Are you gonna rush to take off your dog's flat collar? Oh no, you gotta have, why? What's the difference? They both serve a purpose. If they're serving a purpose, leave them on <laugh>. And I'm not mad, I'm just saying it's worth thinking about. Like, why are we so obsessed with getting the tools off her dog? It's like, when can I pound a nail in without a hammer? Well, fucking anytime I want to, but it's gonna be hard. Why do I wanna make life harder? Putting an e-collar on your dog guys is not hard. You turn it on, you put it on, and that's it for the day, right?

Maybe rotate it so they don't get any sores or anything from it just sitting there. But that's it. It's not hard.

So if it makes your life that much better, if it makes your dog that much safer, just leave it on. But that being said, let's dig into what needs to be true for you to move away from your eco. Um, and sort of what that looks like. Like what are the things we do? Like why, why is that true? Like why, let's get into what needs to be true to move away from your eco and why those things are the way they they are so that you have an understanding of it. 'cause I truly believe when people understand why, like they understand the inner workings of why things are happening, they're so much more on board with it.

06:00 — Moving away from the e-collar requires dogs to understand why the rules and consequences…

So I wanna dig into that.

Okay? So here's what needs to be true in order for you to move away from your eco. And I wanna just stress, um, that there's a couple of different things here with the language, right? So when I say move away from your e-collar, that could mean just not using it so much, right? Or it could mean taking it off. So let's just start with the first one, which is using it les, right? So in order to start moving away from your e-collar, you need to use it skillfully, right? So if you're inconsistent, if your levels are not appropriate, you're probably not gonna be moving away from your e-collar anytime soon, right?

So the more skilled you are with using it, the less you will need to use it, right? The more you use it now, and the more meaningful it is to your dog, the more they understand it, the more impactful it is, the less you're gonna need it in the future.

Common sense, right? So, but if you go home with your dog after a lesson or a board and train, or even if you taught them yourself, whatever the case may be, assuming your dog knows all the, the material, right? They've been trained if you go home and you are not very consistent, right? So sometimes there's consequences and accountability, sometimes there isn't. Sometimes I tell you what to do and I'll tell you 2, 3, 4 times before there's any accountability. Um, sometimes you get away with jumping on people and I either don't correct you because I'm lazy and the remote's not around, or I correct you, but I correct you at like a level five, right?

Which is meaningless. Um, and he's gonna do it again tomorrow. If you do those things, then you never move away from your eco guys because there's no path there for that to happen, right? So the path that needs to be there for you to move away from using that eco all the time is that your dog has experienced consistent and meaningful communication from you, especially accountability for not doing things that they do know how to do and are well rehearsed at and very uncomfortable consequences for doing things that they are never supposed to do.

And if they see that there is no consistent pattern to that, that the the accountability comes sometimes or occasionally or it's so inconsequential that it just doesn't even register to them as a correction for things that you're trying to correct, um, then the behaviors don't change. There's no reason for them to change. So you keep relying on your e-collar to get the behaviors you want when it's the most important and you are feeling motivated to actually do the work, right? So I, there's a lot of people who are like, oh, I just show this to him and he knows.

It's like, okay, you created that. That's not the training. That's not what we teach you. Our dogs here do not do that.

That doesn't happen here. My own dogs don't do that. Yes, they know what the remote does, but they also know that it has no bearing on anything. Whether they can see it or not see it makes no difference because they know and they don't know through magic guys. They know because it's what I have done. I've taught them whether they see this remote or not. The outcome will always be the same. Now, when I say always, no, I'm not perfect. It's probably not a hundred percent, but it's pretty damn close. And I don't take it easy on them.

10:00 — Training should make the outcome consistent whether or not the dog sees the remote.

If it's something that I know they truly know in a circumstance where they should be good at it, an environment where they should be good at it, well rehearsed, I don't take it easy on them. There's a real consequence if you aren't doing the thing you're supposed to be doing, which means they are way less likely to pull that bullshit again this afternoon, tomorrow, next week, right?

So that's how you move away from needing your e-collar all the time. And you can't skip the training. And I know I always say that, but I think it's important to always have that <laugh>, that side note attached here. If your dog doesn't know what to do because you're a crappy trainer or you just haven't put the time in, then you can't hold your dog accountable for that. That's not gonna work. Okay? But assuming that they do real consequences is what stops the pushing of boundaries and the breaking of rules. Guys, if we just threatened people with jail but they never actually went, or they only went one in five times, what do you think would happen if they knew?

It's like, well I can kill this son of a bitch and there's a one in five chance I'm gonna go to prison for it.

Okay, well a lot of people would find that worth it, worth the risk. Your dog's no different, right? And that's an extreme example, right? Shoplifting might be <laugh>, uh, more comparable to a lot of the just pesky behaviors your dog has, right? But some of them are very aggressive and that's a suitable comparison. And it's no different. It truly is the same. So what has to be true is your dog has to believe that there is real accountability every single time they screw up real accountability that actually matters. And it's every time, not sometimes not once in a while, not half the time.

It's every time if your dog believes that, right? It can't just be when the remote's hanging around your neck guys every time, right? If my remote's on the other side of the house, my dog knows, I'm just gonna say no, I'm gonna mark his behavior with a no. I'm gonna march my ass across the house, I'm gonna go get it. I'm gonna provide very meaningful accountability. They know that it has to be every time. If your dog believes that, guess what happens? They just listen.

13:00 — The dog must believe consequences can occur even when the remote is not visible.

Your dog will be the best version of themselves. They will just listen. And they won't do those things that they know you don't like it. When they do, they won't jump on the couch anymore if they're not supposed to. They won't jump on guests anymore. If they're not supposed to, they won't bark out the window. They won't counter surf. They won't do those things because they know it will suck if they do. But you are the only one that can teach them that we can't do that for you. The eco won't do that for you.

The tools guys, do not fix your problems. It's the training.

You have to convince your dog that those things are true. And only you can do that. If you don't, then they never, it will never be the case that your dog just listens to you. 'cause there's no path there for that to happen. Now, when I say every time there has to be accountability that might sound like a real drag and like you're just gonna be pushing buttons forever. But again, if you're doing it correctly and meaningfully it gets less and less and it goes away. Not entirely. Your dog will never be a robot. And here's the funny thing is everybody says to me, right, I get this concern all the time.

They, I don't want my dog to be a robot. I don't wanna strip him of his personality. And then the very next question out their mouth is, when can we take this e-collar off?

It's like, well, since your dog will never be a robot, never, right? Because you can't have it both ways. You can't say, I want my dog to be himself and have all of his personality and have a good time and you know, have some autonomy and be able to make decisions on his own and do stuff. And it's like, okay, but then occasionally you have to accept the fact that your dog is going to make the wrong choices. Your dog is going to push boundaries. Your dog is gonna try to get a rise at you.

Whatever the thing is that your dog does, they're gonna do that sometimes. And if you take your tools off so you can't deal with that, then you just suffer the consequences. Which by the way is also fine, right? But we all have to make our own bed and lay in it <laugh>.

So whatever that looks like for you, um, is fine. And I'll tell you right now, if you're taking your e-collar off during the course of a regular day, um, and your dog isn't wearing the collar all the time, right? So we talked about the remote, but if your dog's not wearing the collar all the time, it will not take long for them to figure out that the accountability's not there. When the caller is not on, they'll know that. And so it doesn't take a genius to figure out how long you're gonna be relying on the eco, right?

The answer is, well forever, okay? Because you taught your dog no caller, no accountability. So now if you don't put it on your SOL, and that is not anybody's fault, but your own and also not the end of the world, right? We have a lot of people that have made that mistake and we tell them all not to do that. But inevitably a lot of people go home and they still do that, right? We can't control people, guys. They go home, they do whatever they're gonna do.

So if you're in that boat, you're a normal human. A lot of people have done that. A lot of people have made that mistake. And I just wanna say, even though we tell you not to do that, and that is a mistake, in my opinion, it's not the end of the world. Love the show. Well, I have great news. We are offering an inexpensive subscription to our new premium content. This is content that isn't available to the general public. We make it just for our subscribers. We're gonna gonna cover a variety of new topics in these episodes and I think it's gonna be a ton of fun.

So you can jump right down into the show notes to get that website address and then skip over there and sign up for this premium content. Just wanted to take a second to let you guys know about that. Thank you so much for your support and now on with the show.

Why? Because you can just put your e-collar on and you'll be fine. And you can start putting it on every day and having it on like you're supposed to tomorrow, tonight and your problem is solved, right? It won't be a problem if you don't give your dog the opportunity to create the problem. Um, but there, there's no quick fix for that. It's just your dog. At the end of the day, guys, no matter what tool we're talking about, um, your dog just has to know that there will be accountability in all the various situations and scenarios with all the various behaviors, um, that you want or that they, that you don't want.

They have to believe that there's real accountability for all of it. And that really is it. Whether it's the eco or it's something else. Doesn't matter. Whatever works with your dog, right? Um, and if they, if they know that that's not true, right? If it isn't true, they will know that they will. Your dog isn't stupid. Um, they are geniuses at figuring out the patterns and they'll figure you out real fast. I know I've told the story a hundred times about my own dog eating the cat food. Um, I very easily taught him not to eat it when I'm home.

19:00 — Dogs recognize inconsistent enforcement and test boundaries when they discover consequences are not reliably…

I very easily taught him not to eat it when I'm not home.

But if I'm not home and my mother is there, he runs right over to the cat food guys. I can leave him home alone for eight hours outside of his kennel. He's free. He's got free access to the kitchen, the dining room. I usually don't allow him into the living room or upstairs I could, he'd be fine, but I usually don't. I limit his space. Um, but the cat food's in there, he doesn't touch it. Eight hours. He can be there by himself, he won't touch it. But if my mom shows up, it's the first thing he's gonna do.

They know whatever is true. Your dog will know it's true. You can't hide from that <laugh>. Um, and it's simultaneously like a huge pain in the ass, but also just beautiful because it's just so honest. It's like I'm just gonna tell you exactly how it is, right? This is exactly right. That's not my dog being an asshole. It kind of is, right? It's just a jerk. Like <laugh>. It's like, just come on. You know, you're not supposed to eat the damn cat food. The thing is, he's telling me, this is the thing I have learned and he's right.

I can't be mad at him for that. He's right when she's there and I'm not.

It's all green lights. There are no consequences. She'll push the button every once in a blue moon. By the time she does, he's committing atrocities. Um, and so he knows it's like, yeah, I get like 20 free passes. I can act like a clown all day and I get away with it. So he does. Um, and that's not his fault, <laugh>. So that's how it works. So if you wanna move away from your e-collar, then the idea is you better be using it now and you better be using it correctly. Better be on all the time.

You better be willing to walk across the house and get your remote after you say no, you better be meaningful with it, right? Don't correct your dog at something very low for something they should know very well. 'cause if you do, you'll have to correct them every day, every day, every day, every day, every day.

22:00 — A meaningful correction for a known behavior reduces repeated boundary testing.

The more meaningful the consequence, the less your dog is going to test that boundary again. Okay? If your dog jumps on someone and your dog isn't real sensitive, okay? And you correct them at a 15, they might get down, but they're gonna do it again. The next time someone walks through the door, right? And that same dog, let's say you correct them at a 25 or even a 30, they're gonna get down. They might temper themselves a little bit the next time someone walks through the door, right? They might hesitate before they jump or they might even not jump.

But then maybe the next time someone comes through the door, they will, right? Or maybe they'll halfheartedly jump and then the behavior just builds back up. It's like, because you're, you're taking it too easy on your dog.

If the idea is to put the behavior to bed, then put it to bed, what level? I don't know. A very meaningful one. So unless your dog is incredibly sensitive, I wouldn't worry about the level at all. It needs to be higher. And it's not me telling you that it's your dog telling you that, right? Because they keep doing it. 'cause it's worth it. I use the metaphor of a vending machine all the time, right? If vending machine steals a dollar, you might give it another try. If you've lost $50 in there, probably not. So you have to start using your brain to think about what's gonna convince my dog not to break this rule anymore?

What's gonna convince my dog that when he breaks this rule, it's that uncomfortable every time, even if he doesn't see the remote, or if you wanna take your e-collar off, even if he doesn't have an eco on, what are you gonna do? And there are ways with most dogs could use a bonker, right? So you could just use a different tool. And what's most effective just really depends on the dog. The most practical way is your eco. So do yourself a favor and leave it on. Now, my dog, like I said, well listen, great without his eco on, but you guys, he probably wore that e-collar every single minute of every single day.

Unless it was charging for like a year and a half.

We were very consistent. Most people aren't going to do that. And if I had my remote in another room and he broke place, I'd say no, I'd get up, I'd go get it, I'd crank it. I would punish that behavior. I'd help him get back on if I had to help him get back on, which I usually didn't because he knew it very well. And guess what? I didn't have to do that too many times before he said, whoa, I can't break place, right? There might've been a few different situations where he was like, well, maybe I can now, maybe I can because she's going up the stairs.

Maybe I can, because someone walked through the door maybe, right? We go, you go through a few of those things, you work through it and you teach him, no, it's gonna look like this every time. And once you've done that, you're usually pretty good, right? Doesn't mean you'll never have to touch it up and have the conversation again. But that's the other mistake people make. They think, oh, I've had these conversations with my dog. He's doing amazing. He's not breaking the rules. I'm taking the e-collar off. It's like, okay, but again, your dog's not a robot.

So in three months from now, six months from now, your dog screws up, your dog gets confident, test the boundary, there's no consequence.

26:00 — When a boundary test has no consequence, the unwanted behavior begins returning.

Maybe you put him back. Okay? That's not a consequence, guys. Well, now what happens? Well, that is the beginning of the behavior now regenerating, right? Because he did it, there was no consequence. And once your dog does something, it's going to happen again. That's normal behavior. The more it happens, the more it happens. So once it happens, once, they're probably gonna try it again. So now the behavior starts to regenerate, right? And you don't have your recall on, and there's no consequences and your dog knows it.

So even if you have had the conversations with your dog and you have done a good job, and you have been consistent and things look really good, guess what? Don't take it off. Because there's going to come a day where your dog tests those waters because he is not a robot, right? And we don't want him to be robots. It's like, okay, he's not a robot, he's going to test the waters. Right? You can't just program him to never test the waters again. And it might be a while, it might be months, right? But if and when your dog screws up and there's no consequence, they will know that, right?

That will go right into the file and it will contribute to their behavior in the future. Because that's normal guys. There's nothing wrong with your dog. It's normal. The problem is with you wanting to have a magic easy button, right? Or wanting your dog to act like a robot when you want them to, but not when you don't want them to, but they're just not. They're living autonomous things that make choices. And all you can do is influence those choices.

And they're never going to be etched in stone, but you can get them pretty damn close with good training, right? And just to reiterate too, when we're building up all these behaviors, guys, tons of reward. If your dog is into anything, tons of food, affection, praise, great. Build up those behaviors. But eventually you have to expect them, right? There has to be the accountability piece. If it's ever going to become reliable. I got a dog in today. It's gonna be a wicked fun dog. Well, he came last night. His name's Draco, he's a dutchie. Um, love working with these really drivey dogs that like to work.

They're fun, right? Um, he knows all of his obedient stuff. He knows it. But why is he here? 'cause it's not reliable, because there's no reason to do it when he doesn't feel like doing it. What's, why? Like what is, what would be the drive to do it if I don't feel like doing it?

And that's true. I say this all the time for all dogs, not just bad dogs, not stubborn dogs, not dumb dogs, not bad. It's just all dogs. It looks different for each dog. But the fact that there needs to be accountability and that it needs to be all the time. If behavior's ever gonna become reliable and polished, especially without constantly pushing buttons, it's true for all dogs. All this stuff is true. All dogs big, small, nervous, pushy, doesn't matter. All dogs. So each rep that we do looks different from dog to dog. What we're using as a reward is different from dog to dog.

What we're using as accountability looks different from dog to dog. But it needs to be there. Those things need to be there.

30:00 — Kati concludes that dogs recognize when accountability is absent, because they cannot be taught…

And your dog will simply know if it's not, you can't trick your dog. That's the beauty of it. You, you just can't trick them. They know. They know you better than you know yourself. People think they're providing accountability sometimes, but they're not. Their dog knows when they won't. And the people don't even know that. They haven't realized what their own patterns are. But the dog knows. The dog knows, oh, when he's sitting in that recliner never gets up to get to get the remote and provide the accountability, right? The know becomes meaningless when you're sitting in the recliner and your dog knows it.

If that's true, they'll know it. Here's what I wanna leave you with. You can't teach your dog things that aren't true. Hey guys, thanks for joining us today. I really hope you enjoyed the show. If there's a specific topic you'd like to hear discussed, you can send that to me directly via email or fan mail. Just jump down into the show notes. That information will be there for you. I really look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for supporting the show and I look forward to next time.