You’re Focusing On The Symptom And Ignoring The Problem

00:00 — Kati Peppe introduces Off Leash and Unfiltered and her business, Diamond K9 Dog Training…

Welcome to Off Leash and Unfiltered. Trigger warning. I'm Kati Peppe, delivering the truth in dog training.

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Off Leash and Unfiltered. I'm Kati Peppe, owner of Diamond K9 Dog Training in Biddeford, Maine. Uh, been on a little bit of a hiatus, uh, lately with a trip to Vegas and I've been really sick with the flu, um, <laugh>. So was my daughter and unfortunately there is some overlap there, uh, with the flu and the trip. So that was really <laugh> really interesting. Um, but it was a good time because how could Vegas not be a good time? Um, but we're back. Time to get back on track and uh, I did a group class the other day and something occurred to me during that group class that I thought was a worthwhile topic, um, to dig into a little bit.

Uh, and this is a good one 'cause it really truly applies to everybody. Everybody, everybody. And I'm sure I've said this in one form or another, um, from time to time.

But, uh, you know, we teach dogs how to do lots of things when they come and they do a training program, right? So we're teaching them obviously sit and things like down and place and how to stay there and how to walk in a proper heel, um, and come back when called and finish coming back when called properly by like sitting down or laying down and like staying with us until we release them. And like, all of these things have a lot of rules attached to them, right? Sit isn't just sit, down isn't just down, place isn't just place, right?

Stay on the place cot, stay laying down. Stay as calm as possible. Don't get up until I tell you it's okay to get up. Don't look for ways to stay busy while you're there. So it's very detailed and a lot of people view this as really militant.

Um, and it's not. It's not. And you know, the thing is, there's lots of dogs out there that maybe it's not that important that they do all these things perfectly. Um, but if, if you're one of those people with one of those dogs, hey, don't send them to me <laugh>, okay? 'Cause we're gonna teach 'em to do these things and to do them properly. Um, and we're gonna hope that, um, that's what you do when you, when your dog goes home, um, because we want you to get the full value of this stuff. And that's sort of what I wanted to talk about is we do this for a reason, because, so we don't do it just for the fun of it, right?

03:00 — Kati explains why commands need clear meanings rather than vague expectations.

Things have to have meaning, they have to have definition, right? We have to, it has to be clear. We have to know what things mean.

And nowadays, <laugh>, this could be a pretty touchy topic because, uh, nevermind dog training, but just in general, everyone's trying to dismantle the meaning of everything. And I'm not gonna go on any kind of like philosophical or political rant here. Um, but it really hits home, especially right now because of that. And it's no different. Our lives, the more we take the meaning out of our, our words and our our language, um, the less meaningful everything is right? And the more hazy and uncertain everything is, the more of a question mark. Everything becomes, and the more anxious everything and everyone becomes, everyone rather, uh, it's no different for our dogs.

So the less definition you give them, um, the less clarity they have, the less confidence they move through the world with, the less of a bond you develop because they don't know exactly what you're asking for, what you want, what the expectation is.

Um, so we strive to make things really clear, um, and simple, right? So the rules are, the rules are the rules. Um, and they don't really change much, um, from dog to dog, right? We, we have commands and they have meaning attached to them. They have rule—clear rules, clear boundaries, clear consequences attached to them. Um, and that's pretty much true for every dog. But now when we're talking about dogs that have any kind of behavioral issues, um, whether it be in general or just with specific people or contexts, this is really, really gonna be important.

It's so important 'cause it defines how your dog moves through the world and it defines your relationship with your dog. So, um, the reason this came up in group class the other day is because we have a wonderful customer, um, with a fan—fantastic dog, really liked this dog.

Um, when she came in, she was just really, really touchy about being touched, about her collars, um, about submitting to have her, her nails done. Uh, she was very nippy and defensive and uh, she had also had some other issues like, um, resource guarding with high-value stuff. And as I got to know her, I mean, what was revealed to me is that she was really a soft dog, but just really uncertain. And in the presence of uncertainty, if things weren't laid out very clearly for her, then her innate response was to be forward, was to be defensive, was to be, um, you know, just that way.

Guarding resources, guarding herself, her space, her paws, <laugh>, you know, all this stuff. Um, but if you define things for her very clearly and you have clear rules and boundaries and expectations, and it is very clear who's in charge and who's making the decisions and what the standards are, that all just melted right away.

And this is, you know, I'm not saying that holding your dog accountable for their commands is gonna fix all of your problems, but it sure is where we get a hell of a lot of leverage and it sure does make a huge, huge impact, uh, on what your relationship looks like. So this particular dog that I'm talking about, while she was here for her board-and-train, I did her nails. And I mean, while she was here, we overcame the collar thing pretty quickly. We did some counterconditioning, but we also just, we just put the collars on and off like a lot, right?

07:00 — Repeated collar handling and accountability for recall helped eliminate the dog's keep-away behavior and…

Like a lot more than we normally would. Um, and we just kind of neutralized it and just made it no longer a thing. But there was also accountability for like coming when called and staying with me. And you're not allowed to run away and you're not allowed to nip me.

And there's consequences for that stuff. And that's it. Once the dog knows that, it became very easy, um, to touch her collars, to adjust her collars, to put them on and take them off, to put the leash on her. There was no more keep-away. There was no more nipping. That changed really quickly. And I did her nails. And the first time I did her nails, I muzzled her up and I just did them. And the second time I did them, we didn't use a muzzle, I didn't need it. And I could tell she was uncomfortable, she didn't like it.

But she's not one of those dogs where it was like extremely life or death, um, to do her nails. Like some dogs, it is like, in their mind it's like you're trying to kill them and, and that's more challenging. Um, but in her case, she just needed real clarity, real boundaries, uh, real standards.

And that stuff just melted away. It just wasn't a problem. And so now that she's back home, and by the way, she's doing wonderful, um, and they've gotten real, everything that they asked for and they're very happy, um, but she still has a little trouble getting the nails done. Um, and also every once in a while it sounds like she'll kind of pipe up and talk back if somebody tries to correct her. And that is kind of a red flag for me because it tells me there's still that very personality trait that I described a minute ago where it's like, if things aren't really clear, you know, if the relationship dynamic isn't really clear, if the boundaries aren't really clear and the standards and expectations aren't really clear, then her innate response is generally to try to be forward and see how that goes.

And so that's just what she's doing.

Um, but so back to the nails, um, naturally it is the human's inclination to focus on the thing that's a problem, right? So, and I totally get that, that makes sense to me. Uh, if you're not a dog trainer, that is what you would think. So her inclination is to go home and focus on the nail clipping, and obviously to ask me like how she should go about the nail clipping. And I do have advice about that, and I did give her advice about that, which by the way was just put a muzzle on the dog and do them, um, and, and be firm, right?

10:00 — Kati describes firm, neutral handling, then identifies this dog's nail-trimming resistance as a symptom…

Not mean, not a bully, but, but firm, right? So we don't use a lot of like gentle, soft touch. We don't use any soothing. Um, we're just very matter-of-fact and very neutral about it. Um, we take their paw, we hold it firmly so they can't pull it away and we just do it.

And that's, that's that. Um, and with a dog like this, that would not be an issue. Like she, she will let you do it. She wouldn't like it, but she'll, she'll tolerate it. <laugh>. Um, but here's the thing, but having trouble doing the nails in this situation is not actually the problem, right? The, the humans, like we perceive it as the problem because it's causing us a problem. Um, but really what it is, is it's the symptom of the problem, right? It's, it's the symptom of the relationship dynamic and the rules and boundaries not being where they need to be.

Um, and I can say that with confidence because I had this dog living with me and I know what I did with her and I know how she responded.

Um, so that gives me kind of a unique insight into this dog specifically. And so my point here isn't to talk about nail clipping and how to get your dogs to tolerate nail clipping. My point here is that the key to fixing this problem really is fixing everything else. And the other kind of red flag that was a clue here was that she gets a little sassy when someone tries to correct her. So that was another kind of hint that things aren't quite where they need to be, even though from their perspective, like things are much better than they were and she's doing very well.

And I believe that she is, there's still something missing. And we see that a lot when dogs come back for their follow-up. Um, the owners are very happy and they've gotten the things that they've asked for. Um, but we can see that the mindset of the dog has deteriorated a lot. And if that happens and you don't get back on track, you risk things unraveling more. Um, and so the point here is that it's really, really important that you don't focus on these little micro behaviors, even if they're a problem. You need to look at the big picture, guys.

So for instance, with this dog, it's, okay, well, what do we do if she sasses us when we correct her? 'Cause that's not okay. Um, why does she think she can do that, right? So if she, if breaking place, what is the consequence for that?

If we are walking in a heel, how is she doing with that? Does she walk in a heel or is she sniffing the ground and lagging behind and finding other things to pay attention to, right? 'Cause those things don't sound like a big deal, but they make everything blurry. Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Off Leash and Unfiltered. I'm Kati Peppe, owner of Diamond K9 Dog Training in Biddeford, Maine. Uh, I've been on a little bit of a hiatus, uh, lately with a trip to Vegas and I've been really sick with the flu, um, <laugh>.

So was my daughter. And unfortunately there is some overlap there, uh, with the flu and the trip. So that was really <laugh> really interesting. Um, but it was a good time because how could Vegas not be a good time? Um, but we're back, time to get back on track.

And uh, I did a group class the other day and something occurred to me during that group class that I thought was a worthwhile topic, um, to dig into a little bit. Uh, and this is a good one 'cause it really truly applies to everybody. Everybody, everybody. And I'm sure I've said this in one form or another, um, from time to time. But, uh, you know, we teach dogs how to do lots of things when they come and they do a training program, right? So we're teaching them obviously sit and things like down and place and how to stay there and how to walk in a proper heel, um, and come back when called and finish coming back when called properly by like sitting down or laying down and like staying with us until we release them.

15:00 — Kati revisits place-command expectations: remain on the cot, stay lying down, and wait for…

And like all of these things have a lot of rules attached to them, right?

Sit isn't just sit. Down isn't just down. Place isn't just place, right? Stay on the place cot, stay laying down. Stay as calm as possible. Don't get up until I tell you it's okay to get up. Don't look for ways to stay busy while you're there. So it's very detailed and a lot of people view this as really militant. Um, and it's not. It's not. And you know, the thing is, there's lots of dogs out there that maybe it's not that important that they do all these things perfectly. Um, but if, if you're one of those people with one of those dogs, hey, don't send them to me <laugh>, okay?

'Cause we're gonna teach 'em to do these things and to do them properly. Um, and we're gonna hope that, um, that's what you do when you <laugh> when your dog goes home, um, because we want you to get the full value of this stuff.

And that's sort of what I wanted to talk about is we do this for a reason, because, so we don't do it just for the fun of it, right? Things have to have meaning, they have to have definition, right? We have to, it has to be clear. We have to know what things mean. And nowadays this could be a pretty touchy dog because, uh, nevermind dog training, but just in general, everyone's trying to dismantle the meaning of everything. And I'm not gonna go on any kind of like philosophical or political rant here. Um, but it really hits home, especially right now because of that.

And it's no different. Our lives, the more we take the meaning out of our, our words and our, our language, um, the less meaningful everything is, right? And the more hazy and uncertain everything is, the more of a question mark

everything becomes, and the more anxious everything and everyone becomes—everyone, rather—uh, it is no different for our dogs. So the less definition you give them, um, the less clarity they have, the less confidence they move through the world with, the less of a bond you develop because they don't know exactly what you're asking for, what you want, what the expectation is. Um, so we strive to make things really clear, um, and simple, right? So the rules are, the rules are the rules. Um, and they don't really change much, um, from dog to dog, right?

We, we have commands and they have meaning attached to them. They have rule—clear rules, clear boundaries, clear consequences attached to them.

And that's pretty much true for every dog. But now when we're talking about dogs that have any kind of behavioral issues, um, whether it be in general or just with specific people or contexts, this is really, really gonna be important. It's so important 'cause it defines how your dog moves through the world and it defines your relationship with your dog. So, um, the reason this came up in group class the other day is because we have a wonderful customer, um, with a fan, fantastic dog, really like this dog. Um, when she came in, she was just really, really touchy about being touched, about her collars, um, about submitting to have her, her nails done.

Uh, she was very nippy and defensive and uh, she had also had some other issues like, um, resource guarding with high-value stuff. And as I got to know her, I mean, what was revealed to me is that she was really a soft dog, but just really uncertain.

And in the presence of uncertainty, if things weren't laid out very clearly for her, then her innate response was to be forward, was to be defensive, was to be, um, you know, just that way. Guarding resources, guarding herself, her space, her paws, <laugh>, you know, all this stuff. Um, but if you define things for her very clearly and you have clear rules and boundaries and expectations, and it is very clear who's in charge and who's making the decisions and what the standards are, that all just melted right away. And this is, you know, I'm not saying that holding your dog accountable for their commands is gonna fix all of your problems, but it sure is where we get a hell of a lot of leverage and it sure does make a huge, huge impact, uh, on what your relationship looks like.

20:00 — Returning to the case study, Kati describes counterconditioning and frequent collar removal and replacement…

So this particular dog that I'm talking about, while she was here for her board-and-train, I did her nails.

And I mean, while she was here, we, we overcame the collar thing pretty quickly. We did some counterconditioning, but we also just, we just put the collars on and off like a lot, right? Like a lot more than we normally would. Um, and we just kind of neutralized it and just made it no longer a thing. But there was also accountability for like coming when called and staying with me. And you're not allowed to run away and you're not allowed to nip me. And there's consequences for that stuff. And that's it. Once the dog knows that, it became very easy, um, to touch her collars, to adjust her collars, to put them on and take them off, to put the leash on her.

There was no more keep-away. There was no more nipping. That changed really quickly. And I did her nails, and the first time I did her nails, I muzzled her up and I just did them.

And the second time I did them, we didn't use a muzzle, I didn't need it. And I could tell she was uncomfortable, she didn't like it. But she's not one of those dogs where it was like extremely life or death, um, to do her nails. Like some dogs, it is like, in their mind it's like you're trying to kill them and, and that's more challenging. Um, but in her case, she just needed real clarity, real boundaries, uh, real standards. And that stuff just melted away. It just wasn't a problem. And so now that she's back home, and by the way, she's doing wonderful, um, and they've gotten really everything that they asked for and they're very happy, um, but she still has a little trouble getting the nails done.

Um, and also every once in a while it sounds like she'll kind of pipe up and talk back if somebody tries to correct her.

And that is kind of a red flag for me because it tells me there's still that very personality trait that I described a minute ago where it's like if things aren't really clear, you know, if the relationship dynamic isn't really clear, if the boundaries aren't really clear and the standards and expectations aren't really clear, then her innate response is generally to try to be forward and see how that goes. And so that's just what she's doing. Um, but so back to the nails, um, naturally it is the human's inclination to focus on the thing that's a problem, right?

So, and I totally get that, that makes sense to me. Uh, if you're not a dog trainer, that is what you would think. So her inclination is to go home and focus on the nail clipping, and obviously to ask me like how she should go about the nail clipping.

And I do have advice about that, and I did give her advice about that, which by the way was just put a muzzle on the dog and do them, um, and, and be firm, right? Not mean, not a bully, but, but firm, right? So we don't use a lot of like gentle soft touch. We don't use any soothing. Um, we're just very matter-of-fact and very neutral about it. Um, we take their paw, we hold it firmly so they can't pull it away and we just do it. And that's, that's that. Um, and with a dog like this, that would not be an issue.

Like she, she will let you do it. She wouldn't like it, but she'll, she'll tolerate it, <laugh>. Um, but here's the thing, having trouble doing the nails in this situation is not actually the problem, right? The, the humans, like we perceive it as the problem because it's causing us a problem. Um, but really what it is, is it's the symptom of the problem, right? It's, it's the symptom of the relationship dynamic and the rules and boundaries not being where they need to be. Um, and I can say that with confidence because I had this dog living with me and I know what I did with her and I know how she responded.

24:00 — Kati argues that addressing the dog's broader relationship and boundaries matters more than focusing…

Um, so that gives me kind of a unique insight into this dog specifically. And so my point here isn't to talk about nail clipping and how to get your dogs to tolerate nail clipping. My point here is that the key to fixing this problem really is fixing everything else, right? And the other kind of red flag that was a clue here was that she gets a little sassy when someone tries to correct her. So that was another kind of hint that things aren't quite where they need to be, even though from their perspective, like things are much better than they were and she's doing very well.

And I believe that she is. There's still something missing. And we see that a lot when dogs come back for their follow-up. Um, the owners are very happy and they've gotten the things that they've asked for.

Um, but we can see that the mindset of the dog has deteriorated a lot. And if that happens and you don't get back on track, you risk things unraveling more. Um, and so the point here is that it's really, really important that you don't focus on these little micro behaviors, even if they're a problem. You need to look at the big picture, guys. So for instance, with this dog, it's, okay, well, what do we do if she sasses us when we correct her? 'Cause that's not okay. Um, why does she think she can do that, right?

So if she is breaking place, what is the consequence for that?

If we are walking in a heel, how is she doing with that? Does she walk in a heel or is she sniffing the ground and lagging behind and finding other things to pay attention to, right? 'Cause those things don't sound like a big deal, but they make everything blurry. They are a big deal because it erodes the definition, it erodes the boundaries, it erodes the standards and the clarity. So you take a dog, you put 'em into a program where they're taught that heel means walk next to my left leg, pay attention to what I'm doing so that you can follow me.

Don't sniff the ground, don't worry about things in the environment. And then you send them home and the owner says, heel. And the dog pretty much just does whatever they want. I mean, they're not dragging him down the street, which granted is the most important thing, right?

But suddenly it's like, ah, I can sniff the ground, I can pay attention to that guy getting out of his car over there. I can fixate on the dog across the street, I can get a foot ahead of my owner and no one says anything. Or maybe they, maybe they do, but maybe they're just nagging at like a really low level that I don't really care about that much. And so it happens over and over again and heel kind of becomes meaningless, right? So suddenly we take a dog that has very clear rules, very clear expectations, very clear understanding of what they're supposed to be doing and what their job is at that moment.

And we're doing something together, right? Which is another big piece of this. And then you send them home and sometimes we let that unravel and it becomes okay, now we're both on our own walk and like, I'm here, but I'm kind of by myself, right?

28:00 — Kati explains how inconsistent walking expectations can affect behavior beyond walks.

I'm becoming, I'm sort of fading into the background and my dog is kind of on their own walk doing their own thing where everything's unclear. And then that innate thing we talked about, um, starts to come out, right? Where their nature is like, well, I'm gonna be forward. I'm gonna make decisions, I'm gonna guard things, I'm gonna, so then we start to see that stuff. And, and here's the thing. I'm talking about the heel, but this applies to anything and everything, right? Because that's just an example. And so you take this thing that we taught the dog, and if you allow it to unravel, that then bleeds into everything else.

It infects the worldview, it infects the relationship dynamic. And now we have potentially a dog that says, well, you know, and when I say they say this, like it's very, I'm humanizing it a little bit, right?

But, uh, more or less what's happening is you've got a dog that knows the skill, knows the behavior, knows the standards and expectations, but then experiences with their owner, right? Their now handler, that those rules actually aren't there anymore. Those boundaries aren't there anymore. Those really clear definitions, those clear lines, they start to fade away. And then our innate natural way of being starts to take over, right? So instead of our learned way of being and our learned way of going through the world becoming our default, if we don't enforce that and we allow it to erode, then the dog's innate nature takes back over, right?

Because we'll never change who your dog is. We'll never change their genetics or their DNA, they're always gonna be who they are. And so if you don't nurture the right things and you don't inhibit the right things, if you're not giving your dog meaningful feedback and keeping those boundaries nice and crisp, um, then their innate nature will just take over again.

And that's just normal. And so there's two points here, really. And that is that if you do a training program, you then really have to work to maintain it because your dog is always gonna be who they are, right? And if you just stop giving them the feedback, then they go back to doing their old stuff because they're still the same dog. Um, but the second point is the rules and the boundaries and the clarity matters. So if you have any kind of a behavioral issue with your dog, don't make the mistake of focusing on the symptom rather than the problem.

31:00 — Everyday interactions collectively shape behavior, making consistent follow-through important beyond isolated problem moments.

You wanna make sure that you're very clear and that you follow through, um, with everything all day long. So you can focus on the one or two moments during the day that are a problem or during the week that are a problem. But if you're letting the other thousands and millions and millions of moments go in between just because those moments don't bother you, then you're leaving way too much on the table because those moments collectively are so much more powerful. And those moments are what shape how your dog goes through the world, how they respond to you, how they view you, how confident they feel.

You can't afford to leave all that on the table, right? And so every dog is different. There's no one-size-fits-all, all. There's a lot of dogs out there that maybe this conversation isn't that important, right? It depends on what you want and like, either you're getting what you want from your dog or you are not. But I think the point is, if you are not, you have to entertain the idea that it might not just be that one context. If you try to attack that behavior in a vacuum and let all the other stuff go all day because it quote unquote doesn't bother you, then you might never get there.

You might never get there. It's like, no, not all dogs have to walk in a perfect heel and stop when you stop and never sniff anything. I like that. I think that's good for most dogs. Work is good. Having expectations is good. There's no harm in that. We tend to view that like, oh, we're being so harsh, so militant. It's like, no, we all need to have work and like purpose and like achievement and victory. Rules and boundaries are good. But anyway, I'm getting off the topic.

And I've completely lost my train of thought. Now, <laugh>, if you've been listening to this long enough, you know, that's a thing that I do. Um, but your dog needs to have that. Like even if they're a good dog, there is benefit to that.

Tons of benefit to that. But you know, if you've got a good dog and you don't have problems and you choose not to make them walk in a heel, I think that's fine. It's your dog. Do what you want as long as you're happy and you're getting what you want. Um, but here's where I get hung up. It's like, yeah, you might have a dog that doesn't have to walk in a tight heel, okay? But so then don't say heel, just walk, right? Don't let 'em drag you down the road. Just walk. Um, right? So you can have both.

34:00 — Casual walks can still prohibit pulling, but commands such as heel and place require…

You can walk in a casual walk without a heel and you can still tell your dog not to pull you, right? You can still correct them if they pull you, and that's the most important thing. But if you're struggling with behavioral stuff, you can't be telling your dog to do things and then not enforcing it. You can't be telling them go to place and then when they get off, you do nothing, right? Or you just put them back, which is essentially doing nothing, right? Or you correct them really low, which is essentially doing nothing. You can't say heel and then allow them to walk ahead of you and sniff the ground and pay attention to everything else.

You can't tell them to lay down and then just let it go. And they get up whenever they feel like it.

You have to maintain expectations because it paints your entire relationship. And then you're gonna see problems creep in in other areas, right? And you're not necessarily gonna tie those together because they don't necessarily seem related if this isn't what you do for a living, right? So it could be as simple as I don't enforce command. And so now my dog guards resources from me. These things are all tied together, right? Because you become irrelevant. I mean, frankly. So it's like, hey, you don't enforce rules, I don't have to listen to you. It's no good. And that doesn't benefit your dog either, because if they go off the deep end, if the behavior gets worse, it doesn't bode well for your dog.

It's healthy to enforce the rules and it's only fair to keep the rules clear, right? So you start saying heel, but not really enforcing it. Or you start saying place or, or whatever it is, and not really enforcing it, not keeping those boundaries super crisp, super clear. That's not fair. Now your dog has no idea what the hell to expect or what they're supposed to be doing, right? And so then chaos starts to creep back in. Bad behavior, start to creep back in. Impulses start to creep back in. Uncertainty, anxiety starts to creep back in because we don't know anymore, right?

37:00 — Kati closes by urging owners to enforce their chosen rules and address underlying problems…

So the reason this works is because it gives the dog clarity. And you can cure a lot with clarity,

Right? We can get rid of unwanted behaviors, we can get rid of aggression, we can get rid of anxiety and nervousness a lot of the time by just giving the dog clarity, right? But if you're not enforcing things, then that all starts to dissolve. Um, and that's no good. So anyway, that's it for today, guys. Uh, hopefully you got something outta that that is, uh, valuable and, uh, whatever your rules are, enforce them and just make sure you're not focusing on the symptom rather than the problem. That's it for today, guys. Thanks for joining me and I look forward to next time.