It’s No Wonder (Your Dog Still Doesn’t Respect You)..

00:00 — Kati introduces Diamond Canine’s e-collar training for off-leash obedience and behavior modification.

Speaker 1: Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Off-Leash and Unfiltered. I am Kati Peppe, owner of Diamond Canine Dog Training in Biddeford, Maine. We specialize in eco training for off-leash obedience and behavior modifications. So helping you stop all those crappy, unwanted behaviors. That's our specialty. We also offer puppy trainings. That's who we are and what we do. And this podcast is of course, my way of sharing everything we're doing with you guys. Everything we're seeing and doing and learning and everything we're talking about with our clients and doing with the dogs. This is our way of sharing it with you.

Speaker 1: 'cause this stuff's hard to find. Uh, and we know people need help. I was one of those people once, that's how I got into dog training, had a terrible dog. But, you know, rather you have, uh, a nightmare of dog or you have an angel of a dog, uh, training is something most people want to do, at least to some level with their dog. And we're here to share with you how to do that. So today I wanna talk about something, uh, <laugh>.

Speaker 1: Something that I've probably ranted about in the past. If you've been listening to my stuff, you've probably heard it before, but, you know, every now and then it's, it's kind of like these same sort of themes will tumble around in my head, but I, I find new angles on them. I discover sort of new layers to the onion, um, and sort of different ways to articulate it too, and, and things that I find interesting about it. But what struck me this time was an interaction with the client when they were dropping off their dog for boarding.

Speaker 1: So this is the dog that's already been through a program, did very well. The owners are great, but you know, they're still human, right? And so this is something that we run into a ton. So I'm not picking on them a lot, a lot, a lot of people, um, you know, they'll go through the training program, everything goes great, but they fall into this trap, um, of kind of nagging their dog, right?

Speaker 1: You'll hear me talk about the nag zone a lot. And you know what, sometimes it might not be that big of a deal, like it's not how I would wanna live with my dog. But at the end of the day, people have to, to do what they think is right with their dog, what's working for them, and what they feel good about. And if that's sitting in the nag zone, well, who am I to judge <laugh>? But sometimes these are dogs that have real underlying behavioral issues, um, things that can be more dangerous. Resource guarding is one of the top ones that comes to mind.

Speaker 1: And in this particular case, this is a dog that did have a history of resource guarding. And so when I, you know, when I see a person and they kind of are nagging their dog, I don't necessarily think that that's anything crazy that I should be concerned about.

Speaker 1: Or, you know, I, I'm always honest with people. I always, you know, I want to make sure they know how to clean things up and know how I would handle it, um, or how I do handle it when the dog is with me. But like I said, at the end of the day, it is what it is. But when I see someone with a dog that I know has real underlying issues, I feel a lot more compelled to put more thought into this, um, and to have a, a more direct conversation with them about it.

Speaker 1: Um, but I was thinking about it and what happens is people are bringing their dogs in for boarding. And believe it or not, the dogs are often pretty excited to be there, pretty excited to see us. They know us. They have a relationship with us, they don't hate us, <laugh>.

Speaker 1: Um, and you know, it kind of gives us a little bit of a window into how things are being handled out in the real world, because I get that your dog's excited to see us, and sure, I'm glad, I'm glad that your dog lights coming back to see us, but right. The whole idea behind the training is to be able to control arousal and impulses and to give your dog the skills to do the same control arousal in impulses. Um, and, you know, to instill the expectation that they do so. And so, I don't wanna see dogs coming in straining on the leash or jumping up and down or whining.

04:00 — A dog’s behavior during visits reveals how the owner handles training standards in everyday…

Speaker 1: I don't, I don't wanna see any of that. And if they do that, I do want their owner to address that. It's not sure, like I said, I'm glad your dog's happy to be there, but at the end of the day, this is actually the thing you paid us for, whether it is or it isn't, it is, which is where I'm going with this, because everything is tied together.

Speaker 1: And so certainly if we're allowing our dogs to do that here, when they come in to see us at the training facility, when they're getting dropped off for boarding or whatever the case may be, then certainly we're letting this happen inside the home when guests come over or when we're out on a walk and we bump into somebody, or we're out at a store and someone wants to give them a pet or a bone, right? We're, we're clearly allowing the state of mind to just run wild. We're clearly allowing our dog to take their behavioral cues from the environment.

Speaker 1: In other words, the, the environment and what's happening in it will dictate the dog's behavior instead of the

Speaker 2: Handler dictating the dog's behavior. And to be frank, like that is the training, right? That's what the training was supposed to be, is to put the power in your hands and to take it away from the environment. So when you allow your dog to whine, to strain on the leash, to break their heel, to get all wiggle button jumpy because they're excited to see whoever, I mean, you are literally undermining yourself, right? You are unraveling the training, you are training your dog to respond that way to the environment and forget about you. Well, that is the polar opposite of what we're trying to teach.

Speaker 2: Um, so don't do that. Don't do that with your dog. Don't feel like, and I do get it guys, like I totally understand why this happens. Um, we all wanna be fair to our dogs. We all wanna see our dogs happy.

07:00 — Consistency is not bullying; it keeps dogs from deciding when rules apply.

Speaker 2: None of us wanna look like bullies or feel like bullies. But that's not at all what this is about. It's about consistency, right? So almost everybody, consistency, consistency, consistency. Like if I had a dime for every time I heard that stupid word, I would be wealthy. But then you see people walk through the door and be inconsistent because X, Y, ZI feel guilty, or he's just excited, or blah, blah, blah. Um, so that doesn't make any sense, but that is the human element, <laugh> of my job, right? That's what we're up against. Um, and again, maybe at the end of the day, it's not a big deal.

Speaker 2: I think it depends on what you want, right? 'cause that's the most important thing is that our customers are happy with what they have. And I think it also depends on what you're dealing with. So your specific dogs, um, what, what is the gravity of their issues?

Speaker 2: Um, and is it okay to let things slide? Is it okay to let some things unravel? Is it okay to let that state of mind kind of go off a cliff because it's quote unquote good excitement because they're happy? And I don't think it's okay if you have a dog, um, where you were struggling with some serious behavioral stuff. I, I think that that is poor judgment if you do that. So let's get down to it. Oftentimes what will happen is I will see people walk through the door with their dog doing these behaviors I described, right?

Speaker 2: Because they're excited and they're whining and they're straining on the leash and they're breaking their heel. And the person might be trying to deal with it, but they're not dealing with it very effectively, right? They're kind of nagging, they're kind of jerking their leash around. Maybe they don't even have the tools on the dog.

Speaker 2: Maybe they don't have the prong color on the dog. Um, and regardless, it's like they're just, they're not getting the behavior that is supposed to be required of the dog. And we're talking about dogs that now are months or even years graduated that should know this stuff very, very well and really shouldn't even need any help anymore, right? They shouldn't need help. They shouldn't need reminders. They shouldn't even be needing accountability hardly ever, right? Because they know it. And so if you've set the precedent, if you've set the expectation that this is what we do, then they should just be doing it at this point for the most part, right?

Speaker 2: It doesn't mean they'll be perfect, um, but it shouldn't be this thing where you have to manage them, where you have to be giving them constant feedback. Like that's early on, right? That's what we're doing early in the training.

Speaker 2: It's not what we're doing a year later, guys. Shouldn't be. So I'll see people come in and I'll see, you know, the dogs getting a little overexcited again, maybe it's not a big deal, but with the dogs I'm talking about, in my opinion, it is. And you know, maybe the person's just letting it go because they're uncomfortable and they're not really sure what they should do. I mean, that happens too. Sometimes people are just kind of embarrassed. They're not sure if it's okay. Like they don't know. But you know, don't let me dictate that. By all means.

Speaker 2: Do what you think is right. Hold your dog to the standards you want them to adhere to.

Speaker 2: Absolutely 110%. But in these sorts of cases, <laugh>, I'll let you know that I think you should be holding your dog to a higher standard so the dogs will come in excited. And lo and behold, you know, as I get talking to the owner about how things have been and what's going on, things are, are usually very good dogs. Much improved. They have so many wonderful things to tell me about all the new things they're able to do with their dogs, and that's great. But if you talk to them long enough, you'll find out they're still resource guarding or they're still afraid they will resource guard, right?

11:00 — Some owners avoid enforcing commands because they feel uncomfortable addressing their dog’s resource guarding.

Speaker 2: So they're just avoiding it. And it's obvious. It's like, I don't even have to think about it. Like it's so, they didn't even have to tell me that. They didn't even have to tell me that their dog will still do that.

Speaker 2: I could have told you that their dog will still do that, because I can clearly see that we have not maintained the expectation for the dog to control that state of mind. The arousal and the impulses. We have not set that expectation with the dog at home, right? I set it when I had them and we were doing great. But now back at home with their family and their regular environment, I can already see when the dog comes in that they decide their state of mind, they decide their level of arousal, they decide if they're gonna stay in a heel.

Speaker 2: They decide, not the owner, not the handler, the dog decides, right? That's what I'm looking at. And I know from experience that it's not just going to be that one situation. It's not just going to be when they're coming to see me. It's not just going to be when they see somebody they know it's not just going to be when they see someone that wants to pet them, that talks to them, that gives them treats. It's not just going to be those quote unquote good, right? Happy, quote, unquote excited moments. It's also going to be the, Hey, that's fucking mine moment, right?

Speaker 2: That's my food, that's my phone, that's my toy. It's gonna be those moments too, guys, because it all comes from the same place.

Speaker 2: I'm not saying it's the same, it's obviously not the same. But what I'm saying is they're both states of arousal. And the idea is to teach your dog that they're not allowed to get to a certain point of arousal unless you invite it. And if they see something that generally triggers that much arousal, they have to control themselves and they have to respect you, and they have to prioritize you, and they have to listen to you despite the presence of the trigger, right? So if that's not happening in a situation as simple as, oh, I see somebody that I know, then I can be certain, like it's not happening in a situation where the dog has a highly prized object in their possession, in a history of guarding, right?

Speaker 2: And so you don't want, see, and I understand, people will say, well, I don't care about this, and I don't mind that.

Speaker 2: And you've probably heard me say that before, but the stuff is all tied together. And you can't expect your dog to change and be respectful and control impulses and have all these wonderful skills and respect for you in the most challenging possible moments of life. If you're never going to rehearse them or ask for them any other time, that's absolutely ludicrous. It would be like downhill skiing in the Olympics, but you never practice, except when it's the Olympics. It makes no fucking sense. You can't expect that you're going to achieve much by saying, well, I only care about it in this context, right?

15:00 — Expecting reliable behavior without rehearsing standards outside high-stakes situations is like competing without practicing.

Speaker 2: It's like saying, well, I don't care about being able to ski <laugh> the bunny hills at Sunday River, or what, whatever. I don't care about making good time on my ski run today. It's like, well, I get it. But if you don't practice that stuff now and in between point A and point B, right? Then when it does come time, when it does matter, your results are going to suck.

Speaker 2: So you have to get leverage somewhere. You have to get rehearsal somewhere. You have to practice standards somewhere. You have <laugh>, you have to have rules at other times besides just this moment. This is the only moment I care about and this is the hardest possible moment for my dog. This is his big thing. And it is the only time that I'm gonna look at it or care about it or rehearse it or have any rules or have any consequences. And the rest of the time, if he chooses to break heel to get excited to whine, I'm not gonna do anything about it.

Speaker 2: I'm just gonna wait until right, and then, or I'm gonna wonder why this super challenging situation is still a problem.

Speaker 2: So what's my point? My point is, you gotta look at things differently, right? Moments that you don't think matter, they matter. And I think that's so important because people think that we're just being militant, right? Or we're just being the quote unquote perfect dog trainer. Like we, you know, we live this way with our dogs, or we expect this of dogs because we're quote unquote dog trainers. Um, or perfectionists, or even bullies, or we're militant or we're over the top, or you know, whatever, any of these things. But really it's because we understand that these are all skills that are, they build on each other.

Speaker 2: That these are all things that chip away at our dog's state of mind and how they go through the world and how they view us, and how well they're able to control themselves. It's all tied together. These are not, the, the guarding of the bone or space or food or toy or whatever it is, is not a completely separate behavior from getting excited when they see someone they love. Yes, they're different. No, they're not the same, but they have common underpinnings, which is, I see, I feel and I do, right? And so if you let your dog practice that every day, every day, every day in moments, that to you seem innocuous, then when the important moment rolls around, it's much, much more difficult.

18:00 — Greeting excitement, guarding, space, food, and toys share common arousal and impulse-control foundations.

Speaker 2: 'cause the dog has no rehearsal to fall back on in any context except that one.

Speaker 2: So what do I do? I'll tell people, Hey, for your dog, I think it's really important that you get a better handle on how he navigates these moments, right? So for instance, I had someone drop off. This was, and this was a guarding dog. I've had a, a few of these fairly recently. Um, and he gets excited and whiny and he kind of breaks his heel and they're using their leash to, you know, kind of disagree with things, or they're tapping the remote, but it's pretty low. Um, and they tell him to lay down and he'll lay down.

Speaker 2: But then, you know, 30 seconds later he pops back up and they just even, you know, they'll say no, and they'll tell 'em down again. They might tap their remote, but again, it's pretty low. And he'll break this down 50 fucking times. And again, I'm not picking on them, right? 'cause things are a lot better than they were. And I think sometimes it's easy to not realize that things still aren't where they should be because they're so much better than they were.

Speaker 2: But I'm thinking to myself, of course, this dog is still gonna guard from you. Why? Because you, you're not even enforcing a simple down command that your dog is known for years, right? And he gets up and there's no consequence. And no, just tapping that remote low and telling him to lay back down, that is absolutly not a consequence, right? So if I tell my dog to lay down and he gets up the first time he gets up before I asked him to, there would be a very high consequence. Sounds mean, right? Sounds very, there's no warnings, there's no understanding, there's no room for mistakes.

Speaker 2: It's like he knows what to do, guys. So I have two options. I either enforce it or I don't. And it's that simple. So you become either a person that enforces things that your dog knows, right? Not things that they don't know, things that you've been through the training and your dog knows, or you are a person that doesn't.

Speaker 2: And make no mistake, your dog knows which person you are, <laugh> your dog knows which person you are. But it also just allows them to stay mentally, more autonomous, more aroused, more escalated, right? And so you're just, you're wiring that because you're allowing them to continue rehearsing that day in and day out and day in and day out where it's like, I just pop back up, I stay aroused, I stay escalated, I stay whiny, I stay excited, I get back up, I get down, I get back up, I get down. It's like you have to break that cycle.

Speaker 2: You've gotta be willing to say, we're gonna start enforcing things that I know, you know, and actually change that so that your dog has some motivation to control impulses and to respect you and to listen to you, and to listen to you the first time you ask for something.

22:00 — Handlers must provide motivation, accountability, and consequences so dogs understand rules and respect them.

Speaker 2: And to know, just know that there are rules and there are consequences, right? Because basically you're teaching them, you're literally teaching them that there's not, so it's hardly better than just teaching them some meaningless tricks, which don't get me wrong, tricks or fun, but there's no real benefit to them, especially from a behavioral perspective, right? It's like teaching your dog to give them, give you their paw or to roll over or something. It's like, that's, that's nice, but it doesn't usually carry any accountability, right? Which is kind of why we refer to it as a trick, right?

Speaker 2: And so you're taking all your commands and you're undermining yourself by just making them tricks and there's no accountability.

Speaker 2: And I always, we always tell everybody after the training program, it's like, we show you how to motivate your dog. We show you how to hold your dog accountable, but we make it very, very clear that we're not gonna be there to hold your hand every step of the way, right? So it's really important for you to know that down the road, at some point, you may need to hold your dog much, much more accountable than what you're seeing right now, because you have to make that judgment. Call yourself. You have to see how things evolve, how things transpire, how your dog evolves, how their behavior changes, what they respond to.

Speaker 2: And so if you find that your dog starts pushing a boundary, breaking a rule, breaking a command, you can't just keep doing what you're doing. Even if it's what we were doing on the day, your dog went home because it isn't working.

Speaker 2: And the goal isn't to have a way. This is really good. This is important. Write this down, <laugh>. The goal is not just to have a way that you can get the behavior from your dog. The goal is to know how to use the tools in such a way that you set the expectation with your dog, that they always listen to you the first time you ask for something, meaning they do it and they do it until you tell them they don't have to do it anymore, right? So just having this handy dandy e-collar where you can tap buttons and get them back into command.

25:00 — Using an e-collar to button a dog back into position is not equivalent to…

Speaker 2: That's kindergarten.

Speaker 2: That's kindergarten. That's not a trained dog, in my opinion. If, if you're doing that, your dog is not trained, and again, I'm not saying they're gonna be perfect, but if you're actually using your tools meaningfully, and you're actually being consistent and being meaningful, there should be change. Things should improve, things should be cleaned up. You should set a real clear expectation at some point that the consequence of not listening to you, whether it's not doing what you ask them to do, or it's breaking that command early, is wildly uncomfortable and not worth it. And it's much, much better for them, much, much more in their interest to do the thing you asked and to stick with it until released.

Speaker 2: As a side note, and I know I always throw this in there, this is for dogs that know the expectation because they've done it, they've been through the training. This is not for dogs that are, are new to the training. They have not been through formal training, right? So I'm talking about dogs we've trained and our customers specifically. 'cause a lot of people will come in and they'll, they'll say, my dog knows down. And you know what? They don't, they know down in certain scenarios, certain contexts under certain conditions, or maybe they don't even know the word, but they know the body language.

Speaker 2: So sometimes people think their dogs know things and they don't. So you should not punish your dog for non-compliance unless you know that they know in that context the behavior that's expected.

Speaker 2: So that's true, but it's just as true that if you never provide that accountability, if you never set that expectation, then it just never happens. And then what happens is the serious behavioral issues never get resolved because you never become a relevant entity who's worthy of that kind of respect, right? Maybe you're a PEs dispenser that's just always shoving food down your dog's throat, and there's never a negative consequence for anything that's about as bad as it gets. But I think a lot of folks fall into the trap because of that. And because that's the narrative out there is that you should just be constantly paying your dog and rewarding your dog and praising your dog and blah, blah, blah.

28:00 — Repeated noncompliance shows that occasional e-collar taps are not creating meaningful accountability.

Speaker 2: People think, well, because they're using an e-collar and because they're using maybe a little bit of negative reinforcement because they're actually tapping the button, um, they feel like they're holding their dog accountable.

Speaker 2: But guess what? They're not. They're not a lot of the time, because if your dog keeps saying fuck you, and just getting up out of their down or breaking their heel, that's not accountability. Where is it? Where's the, where's the change? Where's the self-control? Where's the prioritization of the handler? Non-existent? So I think it's easy to fall into that trap. Um, like I said, especially people that have been through so many programs with like purely positive trainers, uh, it's really easy to feel like you're doing something very, very different. Um, it's very easy to feel like you're doing something that's highly focused on negative consequences, which by the way, yeah, in the end it is because you hardly ever have to use it if you do it correctly, right?

Speaker 2: And so the final result in the training is in fact pretty much only negative consequences. But they only happen when the dog doesn't listen, which is unusual, right? Because if you train your dog properly, real good training, in the end, they should just be listening, right? 99% of the time. And yeah, you'll need an occasional touch up, an occasional reminder, you know what, that's okay. Your dog's not gonna be a robot, that's fine.

Speaker 2: But if your dog is in fact properly trained, they should get to a point where they just listen to you and there's no problem. And on the off chances that they don't, there's a negative consequence. That is where you should land. Now, we start out the training with tons of positive reinforcement, lots of food, if the dog's into food, lots of praise and no problem, by the way, with praising your dog. But it's like, I'll see people tell their dog to do something 20 times and they praise them each and every time, even though the dog's made 20 mistakes.

Speaker 2: And also <laugh>, you know, people put a lot of stress on, on praising their dog. And, and again, I don't have a problem with praising their dog, but I really think that people believe it's so important to do that because they're under this illusion that the dog actually cares how they feel or what they think <laugh>. So it's like you'll see me clicker training a puppy, and I use lots of praise, but there might be plenty of times where I don't use any, but the dog's getting rewarded. But people will get hung up on, well, can't you say good girl or good boy?

Speaker 2: Or it's like, I could, but the fact is the dog doesn't fucking care. The dog doesn't care if I'm happy. The dog doesn't care if I'm excited.

Speaker 2: We're rewarding the behaviors. We want to increase the dog's getting what they want, which is food. The dog doesn't care about my emotional state. But that's another topic for another day. But yeah, that is to say like if you have a dog that's aggressive, if you have a dog that's anxious, if you have a dog, that resource guards, if you have a dog that's reactive, especially reactive, any of these things, then you can't make those kinds of exceptions for your dog just because you feel like it's quote unquote good excitement, right? Or it's cute. And I understand that like, again, we want our dogs to be happy to see us, and we want our dogs to have a good time.

Speaker 2: And all those things are fine within reason, right? But if, if those things take priority over listening to you, right? If your dog is supposed to be in a command and all of a sudden they're not because there's an environmental trigger they're excited about, so they just decide the command's over, that's a huge red flag, huge red flag.

Speaker 2: If your dog has behavioral issues, state of mind issues, you cannot afford to let those kinds of moments, uh, go because your dog is telling you, I'm still the same dog. I still have the same issue, which is, I see, I do. I see, I do. I see, I do. And you are taking a back seat. So excitement is, excitement is excitement. Arousal is arousal. And I would urge you to rehearse impulse control and controlling arousal, whether it's good, bad or otherwise. So that that will help give you leverage in the more challenging situations, and it will change your dog's state of mind in more challenging situations.

33:00 — Rehearsing impulse control during everyday excitement helps dogs manage arousal when genuine problems arise.

Speaker 2: That's it. Your whole day guys is tied together. It's not just when classes in session, it's the other, you know, the half an hour lesson that you're working with your dog. Like that's great. That's the other 23 and a half hours that matter, right? And if you've got one single solitary problem with your dog, you need to be rehearsing working on that problem in all the, you know, 50, 100 moments all day that quote unquote, well not quote unquote, all the 5,000, 200 moments all day that aren't a problem, right? And maybe that's a lot, maybe I'm exaggerating.

Speaker 2: Maybe it's like a dozen, right? But if you have one single solitary problem with your dog, there's gonna be at least a dozen moments the rest of the day that you don't view as a problem that you should be working on. Because they're tied together.

Speaker 2: They're tied together. So if you wanna fix a big problem, you're gonna go after the stuff that you don't think is a problem, because guess what it is. <laugh>. That's it for today, guys. Uh, thanks for tuning in and listening and, um, looking forward to getting things back on track here in the new year. Hope everybody had a great new year. And, um, jump on over to our support page and maybe sign up for our premium content. That way you can help support the podcast and you can learn all kinds of interesting stuff about what's going on behind the scenes and stuff we're dealing with the, with the dogs and how we're overcoming it and, and with the clients and things of that nature.

Speaker 2: So it's kind of some fun, interesting content for you, and I look forward to seeing y'all next time.