Is Your Dog a Chicken? The Art of Desensitization

00:00

Speaker 1: Welcome to Off Leash and Unfiltered Trigger Warning. I'm Kati Peppe, delivering the Truth in Dog Training.

00:30 — Kati introduces Diamond Canine Dog Training’s e-collar obedience and behavior-modification work in Biddeford, Maine.

Speaker 1: Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Off Leash and Unfiltered. I'm Kati Peppe, owner of Diamond Canine Dog Training in Biddeford, Maine. We do e-collar training, both for off-leash obedience and behavior modification. So helping people stop all of those unwanted behaviors like barking leash, pulling, digging holes, all that business, counter surfing, all that stuff. And more serious things like leash reactivity, any kind of aggression, resource guarding, anxiety issues, separation anxiety. Uh, really, really love doing in-depth state of mind work with anxious dogs and fearful and nervous dogs. We also offer puppy training. So that's who we are and what we do.

Speaker 1: And this podcast is our way of sharing everything we do with you. So everything that we're doing with the dogs that we have, everything we're talking about with our clients and everything we're seeing day to day and everything we're learning, uh, this podcast is here as our way to share all that with you because this information is super hard to find.

Speaker 1: Uh, when you do find information on the internet, it's usually garbage. So that's what we're doing here today. I wanted to talk a little bit about desensitization because we recently had a case where that was our focus, and so it's just been kind of been on my mind a lot. We had a dog for bored and train who pretty much was uncomfortable with everything. I mean, she was just uncomfortable existing <laugh>, and I actually don't even think her owners, they actually described her very, very well in our consultation, but I think you might actually be even a little worse than they realized because even when she looks comfortable, she wasn't.

Speaker 1: Um, and so when you have a dog like that, you have to do really everything in your power to chip away at that and get them comfortable and increase that confidence, confidence level, you know, and they might never be a hundred percent, but you can definitely nurture that behavior and make it worse.

Speaker 1: Uh, and you can certainly do things to chip away at it and make things better. And so we wanna give you the information to maximize your ability to help your dog improve. So, and almost all dogs have something that they're uncomfortable with, right? Whether it's loud noises or traffic or, um, you know, just unfamiliar foreign objects like most dogs have something that'll make them a little uncomfortable. A lot of dogs don't like the vacuum, for instance. Uh, but not all dogs. Some dogs are just super, super confident, super forward, nothing bothers them, right? But, and then you've got the other end of the spectrum where like the dog I was just talking about was just uncomfortable with everything.

Speaker 1: Um, and you could even take it a step further. Some dogs, it's just everything turns them into a major, major flight risk, right? Their instinct is just to run away from everything. Everything is like life or death, panic. So regardless of where your dog falls on the spectrum, I think you'll find some helpful information in this episode. Uh, and some things you can do with your dog to improve the situation. Now, there's lots of things you can do, but at the end of the day, if you have one takeaway from this entire episode, I want it to be this one concept right now that I'm gonna tell you.

Speaker 1: And that is that the way we overcome things that make us uncomfortable, whether we're talking about people or dogs, but ob obviously for the sake of this podcast, we're talking about dogs. The way you're gonna help your dog overcome

04:32 — Voluntary exposure means the dog is not actively trying to escape the uncomfortable trigger.

Speaker 1: Something, or at least make progress with something that makes them uncomfortable is voluntary exposure. So when I say voluntary, most people are gonna think, well, that's impossible. Of course, it's not voluntary. My dog doesn't like it. They don't wanna be near it, they don't wanna be around it, they don't wanna be exposed to it. It's like, yes, I know, but you're reading too much into the word voluntary. So voluntary means that the dog is not actively trying to get away, trying to move away, actively, physically trying to avoid the thing that makes them uncomfortable.

Speaker 1: So now that we have established that, how do you do that? And there's a couple of ways you can do it. So the way that we do it is we train the dog with obedience commands to a high level of reliability, right? And then that means we get them to a point where we are now providing accountability, right? So there's a negative consequence, a proper correction if the dog breaks the command. So once you get to that point in your training, and again, it is a process. I know I always say this, but I like to, because if anyone's listening that's not familiar, that hasn't listened to our other stuff or watched our stuff, uh, they might not know this.

Speaker 1: Uh, it's really important that you go through the process and that your dog does have a strong understanding of the command of the behavior and how to do it in different scenarios and environments before we start really holding them accountable for that, okay? And that's all done on a leash. And highly recommend, obviously, if you're working with a dog that can be flighty because they're uncomfortable that you keep that leash on until they're not fleeing anymore, right? Until you know, they've had so much rehearsal and they've shown you so many times that they can tolerate it with no problem, that leash stays on.

Speaker 1: So nothing wrong with leaving the leash on, depending on how you are using it, right? So if we're just dragging the dog around by the leash, then that's probably not doing a lot of good. But having a 20 foot leash on there, you know, holding onto it or at least tying it to something so that we have a safety net. If our dog makes a bad choice, that's very, very smart. And so I highly, highly recommend and encourage that for anybody during their early training phases. If you're working with a flighty dog especially, um, that's a must.

Speaker 1: Okay? We need to be safe. But what we do is we train them to that high level of reliability. We get them to the point where we are providing a proper correction for breaking command, um, where we are at least using a very motivating, say, level on our e-collar, right?

07:45 — The dog learns that staying in command is safer than breaking command around a…

Speaker 1: So depending on the dog and the situation and what we've already haven't, haven't tried, we might not be climbing way up that dial and punishing, breaking command at like the highest possible <laugh> level. Like that's not necessarily what I'm saying. But at a minimum, this is a, at a minimum, we're gonna be looking for the level that motivates the dog to stay in command. Meaning, yes, they're really afraid of the vacuum or the skateboards or whatever it is, but they're more afraid of the consequence of breaking command. So now you've put your dog in a position where, because they're always in a position where they have to make a choice just so that, you know, like when we ask our dogs to do anything 100% of the time, we are putting them in a position where they have to make a choice.

Speaker 1: The dog makes the choices, we can influence them, but we can't make the choice for them.

Speaker 1: So now your dog's in a position when they make that choice that they're going to choose, or they're much more likely to choose staying in command over breaking command, right? Because the one thing you have shown them consistently is that if they break command, it's going to be very uncomfortable. Um, and so that's gonna motivate them to make a different choice. Instead of being a victim of that flight impulse, they now go, if I get up, I know it's going to be really uncomfortable, so I'm gonna try staying put, I'm gonna try staying here, even though those scary skateboards are there.

Speaker 1: And then something magic starts to happen, guys, see? 'cause everybody feels like that's so mean, it's so cruel, you can't do it. You're gonna make the dog more afraid. They're gonna develop this association, right? Of being corrected around skateboards. Like, how's that gonna help?

Speaker 1: And it's like, we're making people make all that stuff up in their head, right? And well, and I know like they're reading it, right? They're reading it online, they're reading articles, they're listening to these YouTube trainers that are totally idiots. Um, and they just have an ideology that they wanna beat you into submission and get you to subscribe to it. And it's just not real. So they can say whatever they want, they can read you whatever they want from whatever papers science they want, okay? But science, and I don't wanna get into this debate right now, good science, real science accurately describes reality, right?

Speaker 1: If you do a bunch of scientific experiments or research and the end result displays something that is not consistent with reality, then that is not science. That is lies <laugh>. So we can have that debate later. Um, what we see in reality is that something magic happens when you do this because you have, now, I'm gonna use another ugly word, you ready? You have now forced the dog to choose, right? There's the voluntary part to choose to stay around the scary trigger.

11:00 — Choosing to remain near the trigger lets the dog discover that nothing harmful follows.

Speaker 1: And now they get to see they don't die. The skateboards don't come and eat them. They live through it, and then you release them, right? And some timing around your release is a good idea. Meaning pay attention to your dog's state of mind, pay attention to where they're looking. And I mean, ideally, like if your dog can go all the way into a settled, relaxed state, great. Do that and then release them. But most dogs, if they're that afraid and they're that uncomfortable, that's probably not gonna happen. At least not at first. It's gonna be a good long time.

Speaker 1: Um, but so start small and say, okay, the first time I see my dog take their eyes off the skateboards or whatever the trigger is, that's when I'm gonna release them. Choose that moment, right? So you can be strategic even about your release in a way that will start to help wire their brain to do that behavior more, and it will help them, uh, overcome things faster, potentially, right?

Speaker 1: So we can be strategic about all of this stuff. Also, we work our way up to it, right? So if let's just say it is skateboards, because that's a a good example, it's an easy one to use. Um, we're not necessarily gonna walk right up to the halfpipe and put the dog in a down right there. There's an actual risk of someone like falling on her <laugh>, okay, maybe we're gonna start 50 feet away depending on how uncomfortable the dog is. Maybe we're gonna start 50 feet away, right? Maybe it's 20 feet away, but maybe not.

Speaker 1: Maybe we're gonna do a little closer and a little closer, and not necessarily even in the same session or the same day, maybe not even in the same week, right? But you'll start wherever you notice it starts getting hard for the dog. That's where you'll start, right? And do that a few times.

Speaker 1: And if you notice like in that one trip that the dog is visibly having an easier time, then maybe you make it a little harder. Maybe you get a little closer, maybe you make 'em hold it a little longer, and that's okay. But the goal isn't to push them all the way to just being fine with things in one session, that's unrealistic. So it's like, well, how fast can you move? Well, I don't know. It depends on the dog, right? Again, it depends on how severe they are, right? But if you can see your dog's visibly uncomfortable, then there's not necessarily a real need to make it harder.

14:00 — Increase difficulty according to the dog’s response instead of forcing progress while visible discomfort…

Speaker 1: You know, you're getting value out of it. You know, your dog is choosing to do something that's difficult, and they're holding the position and they're getting that time being desensitized to the trigger and seeing that things are fine. They're getting to experience a release and potentially a reward if they're interested in it. Um, and so you're making progress. You don't necessarily have to make it harder is as long as we're seeing that it's a challenge, right? If there's no challenge, then yes, you're not, there's no value in that, really, right?

Speaker 1: So the pace you move at will probably depend a lot on the dog and how difficult it is for them. But you will increase the challenge over time. Right? Now, it's really important during this exercise that we're not doing things to encourage the wrong state of mind, because that's a real common, common mistake that humans make. We want to soothe our dogs. We want to comfort them, we want to reassure them. Sometimes we're tense and uncomfortable, and so we're touching the dog and giving them all kinds of softness, and we're doing it for our sake to make ourselves feel better, 'cause anxious, like that's common too.

Speaker 1: Um, but ideally, these types of exercises are mostly silent.

Speaker 1: So we don't say a whole lot to the dog besides our communication of what we would like for them to do. And then obviously we can tell them when they are done. I don't have any problem with a little bit of praise as long as it is done in a manner that doesn't get the dog all amped up. So let me explain just real briefly that a lot of times, anxiety, nervousness, and fear are tied in with arousal. Everything's tied in with arousal. <laugh>, if you haven't noticed that. Um, arousal is at the core of all of our problems with our dog, whatever they are.

Speaker 1: So if you get your dog aroused excited, you will see more of whatever their issues are. And that includes nervousness, fear, anxiety, all that stuff. Okay? So if you insist on every time your dog does something you ask them to do, having a party for them, and oh yeah, good girl. Woo, good job. Oh, what a good girl, right? That's gonna get your dog excited and it's gonna trigger more and more and more nervousness. I know it doesn't seem like that should be the case, but the fact is you're switching that nervous system into high gear.

Speaker 1: And so there's the real potential there to make things more difficult for them. So we do praise the dog when we're working on things like this here at the training center, but we do it in a much more neutral manner. And the dog knows what it means, okay? They read our body languages, they see us looking at them, we're making eye contact, um, and they know our language, our words, because we keep a pretty simple language here with the dog, so they understand what everything means. And so if I have a dog that has a really hard time with the trigger and I ask them to go into a down or whatever the command is around the trigger, and they do it and they're holding it, I'll say, good, that's it.

18:00 — A calm handler standing confidently near the trigger demonstrates that the situation is safe.

Speaker 1: I don't have to say more than that. And then they're gonna see me standing there with confidence being unbothered by the trigger, and they're going to hear me telling them they're doing a good job, but that's it.

Speaker 1: I'm not gonna have a party. I'm not gonna comfort them. I'm sure as fuck not gonna tell them it's okay, pardon my English, but everyone, it's okay. It's okay if I hear someone say that. No, it's not okay. Your dog has a problem. It's not a normal problem, and it's not okay <laugh>. They, they have to get over this problem and they're not gonna get over it. If we spend our time pitying them feeling bad and trying to comfort them, that does not help them. It helps us, okay? It is selfish, and I know people don't mean it to be selfish, but once you have this information, if you continue to make that mistake, then we're not trying hard enough.

Speaker 1: And trust me, I have met many people who know, they know they do things to make their dog worse. They know they shouldn't touch them. They know they shouldn't comfort them. They will admit it, and they continue to do it. Anyway, I had one customer that couldn't sit through a movie with her husband. I can't even, I don't even know how these people are still married, couldn't sit through a movie with her husband because the dog needed her constant attention, and the dog would whine and cry until she went and tend to it. Um, and she had a very, very anxious dog, and she would continue to do that, even though I told her not to, and that that was a mistake.

Speaker 1: Um, and, you know, I gave her very clear advice on how to handle that situation. Um, and it's the type of thing that can get better very, very quickly.

Speaker 1: Uh, and, you know, mentally, you know, with her <laugh> cognitive part of her brain, like she knew, she knew I was right, and she knew that that would probably get better results, but she would still go home and continue to revert to lizard brain and do the same emotional behaviors. Um, and so be conscious and aware of that we're all gonna make mistakes, and you're human and, and it's good to be human, and these emotions are okay, right? But you have to be smart enough to recognize that your feelings lie to you, okay? They're doing a job and the job of your feelings is like life or death, right?

Speaker 1: It's like save your life or save your dog's life. But they're not always real, right? They're not always accurate, right? Because the truth is, if you have your dog in a situation where they're holding a command around a scary trigger, you know, assuming that it is a safe situation, right? Nothing bad is happening.

21:00 — Holding a command safely around a trigger can build confidence and expand the dog’s…

Speaker 1: And so your feelings in the moment are completely irrelevant, right? So, I mean, feel them and then think about it, right? Because you're gonna have to make a choice to do one or the other. You really can't have it both ways. You have to be the strong one with like the more advanced brain <laugh> and say, I know my dog is uncomfortable. I know my dog might even be like shaking right now, but I also know that she's okay. Nothing bad is gonna happen to her and this is going to serve them better in the long run.

Speaker 1: This is gonna move him or her closer to being a more confident dog that can have a bigger world and go more places. You can't have it both ways. If you wanna cave to that emotion and soothe the dog, it will definitely camper your results. It things will definitely take much longer and you might not get anywhere again, depending, right? Probably depending on the dog.

Speaker 1: But, so really, really important. We keep things very neutral, very quiet. Um, we do let the dog know when they're doing the right thing, when they're doing the wrong thing, right? But there's very little emotion involved, you know? And if they make a mistake, we're not getting angry that we're not getting mad. It's not that, yes, there's a consequence, but there's a consequence because rationally, realistically, there has to be to get the dog to choose to do something else. There is no other way. And most dogs too for the food fanatics, right? And I'm a fan of using food to build up behaviors, but most dogs, if they're that anxious and that uncomfortable, they are not going to take food.

Speaker 1: They're not gonna be into it, guys. So you better have some other tricks up your sleeve. But, so that's where the magic starts to happen. Your dog has to make this choice now, and now you've given them a very real reason, very real motivation to make a decision that they never would've made otherwise. And that is to stay put and face this trigger. And guess what? The more you do it, the easier it gets most of the time,

Speaker 1: Right? So I wanna talk now about

24:09 — Frequent short sessions, like repeated nail-trimming practice, help prevent regression and build tolerance.

Speaker 1: That, right? So frequency is gonna be a big, big part of the equation. So here's a real good example is nail trimming. A lot of dogs are really uncomfortable with nail trimming. They don't like it. And the number one reason that some people struggle with this, with their dogs for so long, maybe even the dog's entire life, is because they only do it once every one two months. So there's no frequency there, right? So the more time you leave in between your practice sessions, the more likely you are to see regression and the worse the regression will be.

Speaker 1: So that's normal. So even though you might trim your dog's nails 123 times before they die, if you never increase the frequency, they never really have a chance to get used to it. And that doesn't mean that they won't, it just means that it's less likely to happen or it will take much longer to happen, or it might not happen at all. Again, dependent on the dog, dependent on how severe it is, dependent on their genetic ability to, um, change their behavior, all this stuff, there's always a genetic component, right?

Speaker 1: Every dog's brain is different, every dog's personality is different. So it depends on a lot of things. But what we see generally speaking is if you don't increase that frequency, then your period of time to true desensitization is going to be dramatically increased. So, you know, and that's part of the reason I think too, that a board and train can be so effective is because when people are trying to do this in their own daily lives, they don't have, right? It's not their job to do it. So by that I mean they, most people have paid jobs they have to do for the majority of the day, and then they're trying to squeeze the dog into that like during the week, right?

Speaker 1: So their field trips are probably gonna be fewer and further between. If we have your dog for a board and train, well, we're obviously our job is to focus on the dog training. So your dog gets to go out and, you know, confront whatever these triggers are, uh, frequently. So I think that that's really helpful, especially upfront, right? To front load that training and have that frequency. So you, you want to try to make a lot of headway upfront.

Speaker 1: So if you're really serious about getting your dog comfortable with something that right now is impossible, right? Or really difficult, then I would say put together a plan where you go, okay, we're gonna work on this thing on these days and try to do it, you know, a few days in a row, maybe even multiple times a day if you can. Now, if, if it involves travel, maybe that's not realistic to do it multiple times a day, but maybe, maybe what you can do is if you can do, if you can do it once a day, a few days in a row, and then maybe at a different point in the day you can work on something else that's a little uncomfortable, right?

Speaker 1: Even if it's not as big of an issue as the main trigger thing you're working on, maybe you can think of something else that makes your dog uncomfortable, right?

Speaker 1: Because anything that makes them uncomfortable is progress. So it's, it's a skill in itself that your dog is learning to overcome, right? It will generalize to a degree, and again, dependent on the dog. But you know, if my dog is absolutely terrified of skateboards, then maybe we're gonna go to a skateboard park, right? Or over to a neighborhood where I know there's kids that skateboard or whatever. And maybe we're gonna do that once a day for at least a few days in a row this week, and then maybe in the evening at home. I know my dog's pretty uncomfortable around the vacuum, so we're gonna do that, right?

Speaker 1: So even if you can't do like the big thing 2, 3, 4 times a day, which by the way is what we would like to do in an ideal world, do, if you can't do that, then do something, do something else that is similar, even if the dog's response is not as dramatic, even if the problem is not as amplified because it will help you, it will help you.

29:11 — The working protocol combines quiet presence, leash safety, timed releases, and no coddling.

Speaker 1: Um, so the way I we do it, like I said, is we teach that obedience to a very high level of reliability. We bring in the accountability and the consequences. We put them on a, a line for safety, a leash or a long line something. And so we're not keeping them on a tight leash and restraining them because they have to voluntarily choose to focus on their command and stay put rather than flee from the trigger. And that might just be sitting, it might be a down, it might be a heel, right? And chances are I'm gonna stand right there with the dog at first until they start to get comfortable with it.

Speaker 1: And then I might start giving them some distance, right? And then we might get closer to the trigger and closer to the trigger. So we can make it harder in different ways over time. But you can't rush it. Lots of repetition, lots of frequency. The more you can do it, the better. Well timed release is also helpful. Being strategic about when you release the dog. No coddling, no soothing, no comforting. You can tell 'em they're good, but you should be neutral about it,

Speaker 1: Right? For the most part, we really just wanna be quiet and we wanna exude confidence ourselves. So that's how we generally do the desensitization thing. However, sometimes we're working on this stuff whether we want to or not, right? Because sometimes the dog's just afraid to leave the house. Sometimes they're afraid of strangers, sometimes they're afraid of the crate and they have to go in the crate. Like there's all kinds of things I can think of. Sometimes they're afraid of traffic, right? But there's traffic. That's just the real world. I can't wait until the dog is trained to go practice that.

Speaker 1: So sometimes we're rehearsing this stuff and we're working on desensitization before the dog has that obedience training fully in place, right? So I can't put them in a command and just punish them for breaking the command. 'cause they don't have the training yet. That would be ludicrous. It's not gonna work. They're not gonna be able to do any of the stuff. So I wanna talk about that because you know, you might be one of those people that just doesn't have that level of training with your dog. And there are still things you can do that can be very, very effective.

Speaker 1: And they're very, very simple.

Speaker 1: And so a good example of that is, you know, when we bring a dog in and they have no training, what are we doing? So I wanna describe what that looks like a little bit. And the way that that looks is dog is on a leash and prong, 99% of the time it's gonna be a leash and a prong. And so it's important to know how to use a prong collar. Uh, we have lots of prong collar videos out there. There are lots of other trainers with good prong collar videos out there. Do some research.

Speaker 1: Learn how to use pressure and release on your prong collar as well as pops. Most of the work we're gonna do with a dog that's really anxious, uncomfortable, and nervous, fearful flighty is gonna be pressure and release work. Okay? So let's say I've got a dog who's terrified of cars going by and we have to walk down a road on a sidewalk and it's, there's cars going by.

Speaker 1: What we're gonna do, the dog is gonna be on a leash and a prong. And I'm going to have a safety clip on my prong. It's important, right? Because you've got a flighty dog. So you can't afford to make any mistakes here and have your dog get away from you. Um, important that you have a good grip on your leash. If there are a leash biter, that's something you're gonna wanna know ahead of time too. 'cause you don't want them cutting through the leash with their teeth. But safety clip that runs from your prong collar to your flat collar, basically just a carabiner.

Speaker 1: Um, you wanna make sure nothing's tangled or twisted so that your prong collar will engage properly Again, find a video, watch a video on it. Um, but that way if your prong collar should come apart for any reason, because it could theoretically the way they're put together, it could just break apart, then your dog would be loose and that'd be terrible.

Speaker 1: So safety clip on leash and prong on, okay? Prong collar's up at the top of the neck, properly fitted and everything. And what we're gonna do is we're gonna have a really, really short leash. I'm gonna have a good grip on it. It's gonna be wrapped right up around my hand. Um, however, it's not gonna be tight, right? So I'm not pulling the dog around, yanking the dog around. I don't have my, I don't have the leash in my hand and my fist up on my chest really high, like steering the dog and keeping the leash super tight so the dog can't make any choices.

Speaker 1: That's not what we're gonna do. I'm gonna have my arms mostly down at my side. Now, there might be a ton of leash work to do and my arm might just be going crazy, right? Depending on the dog and how frantic they are.

Speaker 1: But for the most part, what we're shooting for, what we're trying to do is we're trying to keep a nice short leash, mostly for safety, right? And to control things. 'cause it's gonna be important early on to have control of everything. So you don't wanna give the dog six feet of leash to go nuts. That's bad news. Nice short leash. But we're gonna try to be as relaxed as possible. So in a perfect world, our arms would be right down at our side. The leash would have like a little J in it, right? 'cause it'd be a little sag there because it's nice and loose.

Speaker 1: And the dog would be next to us. Now, if you have a flighty nervous dog, that's probably not how that's gonna look, at least not most of the time. So what we're gonna do is I'm gonna be confident.

35:00 — Do not ask the dog to prove it can walk past cars; calmly create…

Speaker 1: I'm not gonna ask the dog to walk. I'm not gonna have, in my mind, let's see if the dog will walk by the cars. None of that's happening. We're just, we're gonna go walk by, we're gonna go walk up the sidewalk we're it has to be done, right? And by the way, if walking is too hard, like just standing still for a little bit might be a good idea too. Nothing wrong with that, and we'll talk about that. But, so in my mind, and this is important, like the dialogue you're having with yourself is important.

Speaker 1: You wanna remember that this is not a performance. The goal here is not to walk by. And nothing happens in its uneventful. That's not the goal. The goal is not to walk by and your dog does a quote unquote, good job. That is not the goal of training. In fact, you could say the goal of training is quite the opposite. The goal of training is to put the dog in a situation where they won't do a good job. And we can address that appropriately. And how we address that will depend on what we're doing and what stage of the training we're at, right?

Speaker 1: We might be using obedience, we might be giving corrections. We might just be giving guidance. We might be using a food law. We might be doing any number of things. But the goal is never for the dog to be perfect. The goal is to do the hard work.

Speaker 1: So I'm not worried about what the dog is going to do because it doesn't matter. I see a thing that needs to be done, we're gonna go do it. The dog's gonna do whatever the dog's gonna do, and I am going to respond accordingly. Okay? So what we do is we just go walk and we're confident about it. Let's go. And then I'm going to begin using artful pressure and release, depending on whatever the dog does. But it is extremely important that I don't put pressure on the leash for no reason. Meaning if I am all tense and tight and I'm pulling on that leash for no reason, that could trigger the dog to be flighty and freak out.

Speaker 1: Important to be relaxed. Now, if the dog freaks out, the dog tries to run away. Here's what we do, right? And again, you have to practice with your prong caller. You have to do your research, watch the videos, learn how to use it. But here's what I do.

38:03 — During full panic, stop, stay quiet, maintain pressure, and release immediately when the dog…

Speaker 1: I try to just keep walking, right? But if the dog's having a full blown panic attack, we might have to stop. And that's okay. We're gonna stop. We're gonna be, I'm gonna be very still, and I'm going to be very quiet still. I'm not gonna soothe the dog. I'm not gonna tell them it's okay. I'm not mad at the dog. I'm not yelling at the dog. That's not happening either. I'm just still, and I'm not giving, right? So they're trying to get away and they're pulling on the leash, which could then tighten the prong collar, which could then elicit a little bit of panic or frustration or both, which is really common because they just wanna get away and they escalate more when they realize they can't.

Speaker 1: Right? My old stuff's not working, holy shit.

Speaker 1: But we're gonna stand there with the leash tight while they freak out. And the freak out's not gonna last forever. It's going to stop right now if I move with them as they're pulling, 'cause I am afraid for them to have that pressure on the prong caller. I'm afraid of their freak out. If I move with them and let them pull me right as they're trying to get away, then I am potentially encouraging more of that behavior in the future, right? Because if we let that work, then the brain goes, aha, this is what we do, right?

Speaker 1: So naturally the brain's gonna take that root more frequently, and you're probably gonna see it again next time. So we can't do that. Now, I'm not saying I won't let the leash give a little bit or go with them a little bit if they're really having, uh, a full on meltdown.

Speaker 1: But I really try not to. And you know, usually in this situation, this isn't the first time the dog's been on a prong collar. I we've been working on it hopefully, um, for at least a day or two. Like they're, they're familiar with it. They've learned like what it feels like, what turns it off and on. Like ideally, you don't wanna be in a situation like this with a dog that's never had a prong caller on, right? Because, and some dogs that would be fine, but some dogs are very sensitive to it and they do kind of go, oh my God, what is that?

Speaker 1: And they kind of freak out a little bit, right? Not because it hurts, but because it's novel and they're anxious nervy dogs. It's different, right? But, so I'm gonna try not to give a ton. I'm gonna mostly stand there with the pressure on the leash, and I'm just gonna wait confidently and quietly for them to stop freaking out.

Speaker 1: And as soon as they do, I'm gonna make sure I relax that leash. Guys, so important. So this is your artful use of pressure and release, right? They're having their meltdown. There's pressure, the pressure isn't turning off, they stop having the meltdown. Relax the pressure. Make sure you loosen that leash, right? And usually all that requires is just moving your arm in a certain way, moving it down, moving it closer to the dog. Doesn't mean you have to let out your whole, your whole leash. I still wouldn't recommend that. But you do whatever you have to do to make sure there's no leash tension at all.

Speaker 1: And then you can even say, good, right? And then it's, let's go and you start walking again, right? So it's assertive, but it's encouraging. It's inspiring. It's a coaching tone, right? It's not a mad, angry, punishing tone.

Speaker 1: And it's not a soft, soothing, comforting tone. It's just all business, right? We got places to go, let's go. You got this, let's go and we're gonna keep walking. And if that happens again, we're gonna do the same thing again, right? And with some dogs, you might have to work them through that a dozen times in a short span, right? So people expect things to happen instantaneously. It's like, just because your dog does something a few times in a row, it doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with your dog.

Speaker 1: It doesn't mean they're not learning. It doesn't mean it's not working. It doesn't mean that, trust me, they are learning. The question is what are they learning?

Speaker 1: So they're either learning that they can freak out and you'll give in, you'll go with them, you'll let them escape. You'll let them avoid, you'll loosen the pressure. You'll do this, you'll do that. Or they're learning, it just doesn't work. It doesn't work anymore. I'm going to have to trust this person and go with them, right? So it's the same concept as the obedience training, except there's no actual commands, right? The only thing we're expecting from the dog is for them to not run away, right? We have them on a leash and we're either, we're just standing there hanging out, which is fine.

Speaker 1: You can do that, right? So I said a minute ago that I would talk about that too. It's like maybe the exercise isn't walking, it's just standing still. You literally don't have to expect anything from the dog, except they can't run away.

Speaker 1: So in that scenario, whenever the dog strains on the leash, there's obviously going to be pressure. You might use a little muscle to add to the pressure and to kind of guide them back toward you. Again, all depends on the situation, the dog, their sensitivity level, how severe their reaction is, all these things. But at the end of the day, ultimately what you're trying to get out of that, out of that moment is you're trying to get them back into a state of not trying to avoid, of just accepting that they have to stand there present with the trigger.

Speaker 1: Excuse me, right? It's like, no, you gotta do this, right? But once they settle and they stop trying to flee, you have to make sure that leash relaxes. That is the key. And it's in those moments, your magic is happening because the dog is standing there or sitting or whatever with a loose leash. The trigger is present and they are not actively trying to avoid. So depending, again, on the dog and, and their, the severity of their reaction, like that might be all you do for a while. Like, we're just gonna go visit this busy corner and we're just gonna stand here.

Speaker 1: And that's fine.

Speaker 1: And then maybe at some point you're gonna ask for a sit and they're gonna have to maintain a sit,

Speaker 1: Which again, you can get a sit with just leash, right? Leash pressure upwards. Um, if you've conditioned the dog to do that, and most dogs, it's very, very easy to condition that. And then when they sit, relax that leash. But getting your dog, whenever they have a, uh, any kind of a meltdown or they're trying to strain forward or away they're trying to avoid, the key is always, always to shut that leash pressure off and go back to a totally relaxed leash. The second, the split second, they stop having a meltdown. And to just be neutral and keep your verbal at a minimum and use a very simple language, right?

Speaker 1: And that's it. We're just going to, we're gonna go walk by if that's what we're doing. And if you know, at the, at the most severe end of the spectrum, you might have a dog that needs to have a couple of leashes on for safety. And it might take you a long time to walk, walk a small stretch. But again, if it's that severe, hopefully we're able to put ourselves in a situation where we can take it slowly and start at a distance, right? But life doesn't always allow for that.

47:07 — When elevators or traffic prevent staged exposure, avoid dragging and let the dog choose…

Speaker 1: You know, you get dogs that don't do well on elevators, but guess what? Sometimes these dogs live in buildings where they have to get on fucking elevator to go outside to pee. So what are they supposed to do? You gotta just do it. But sometimes that's just life, right? But if you can work up to it gradually, then that's fine too. Life doesn't always allow that, right? But you gotta have a confident mindset going in. And don't worry about how the dog's gonna react. Just let them make some decisions and give them that really confident, quiet guidance with the leash, right?

Speaker 1: But when you decide it's time to move, you need to move, right? So if the dog puts on the brakes, a lot of people just stop. Okay? Well, again, you're telling the brain to keep completing that circuit over and over again 'cause it works. So I'm not saying you should drag the dog. 'cause we never do that on a prong caller. And the reason we don't do that isn't because it hurts the dog, although it probably would be unreasonably uncomfortable, right? It's not something we need to do. The reason we don't do it is because they're not learning anything that way.

Speaker 1: Again, so the idea is voluntary, right? If I just drag the dog down the road, that's not voluntary.

Speaker 1: What we do is we very confidently start walking that leash pressure's gonna kick in, and the second they move with it, we're gonna say, good. And we're gonna make sure that leash is nice and relaxed, right? And you might have to turn that leash pressure on off, on, off five, 10 times while they put together that pattern of Oh, right. Tightens up when I put the brakes on or try to run away, but it's nice and loose when I'm just walking next to the person. Like, I need to trust my handler. Right? Your dog will put together the patterns if you stick to the patterns.

Speaker 1: But it's too natural sometimes for people to do the opposite. And they let the dog set the pattern. Well, that's not gonna work if your dog puts on the brakes and then you stop with them and relax the leash. What have they learned? Like what is that pattern? What, what are you telling the brain? You should do that. That's the most comfortable thing to do and it's effective and it saved your life, so please keep doing it. No, no, no, no. That leash pressure stays on, right? But I'm not gonna drag 'em. I'm just gonna keep that leash pressure on and when they start moving, I'll shut it off and relax it.

Speaker 1: And I'll say, good. And we're gonna keep walking very confidently, head up, shoulders up, but relax, right? No tight leash, right? And every time they try to flee, that's the same exact thing that's gonna happen. And so it's very, it happens very, very quickly. The brain will establish that pattern very, very quickly and will learn. I can't try to flee.

Speaker 2: I,

Speaker 1: And it will learn. I can just walk with this person. And guess what? That seems to work out great. It's really simple concepts when you really stop and think about it. But most of us don't. Most of us are just acting out of, uh, just our natural feelings, really. So some people are extremely averse to like pulling their dog, right? I've seen people that couldn't get their dog out of the car and I've watched them fight with their dog for like five minutes to get out of the car and they never pulled the leash, right?

Speaker 1: So, and again, when you're in these scenarios with a flighty dog, I'm not saying drag the dog, that's really always a last resort that we might do in like a life or death, like half to move situation. Um, but that's not the training, that's not effective, that's not voluntary. You have to get the dog's brain to tell the dog's legs to move with you. And with artful pressure and release, you can do that, but keep your expectations low, right? It's like people want their dogs jumping through hoops of fire. No. Like maybe you're just standing there and then you're getting closer and you're getting closer, but maybe you start at a distance, right?

Speaker 1: And then maybe you're asking for certain commands and then maybe you're making the commands more challenging, and then maybe you're actually moving away from your dog and they're there kind of by themselves, which makes them feel vulnerable,

52:16 — Sometimes the entire session is simply standing near the trigger and allowing the dog…

Speaker 1: Right? But you start easy and that's it, guys. Like all you need is a leash and prong, like anybody can do that. You don't need a big fancy training program, right? You seek out the things that make your dog uncomfortable and you just go stand there and you now know you can't give in when your dog tries to flee. And every time they stop trying to flee, relax the leash, say good, very neutrally, and just stand there and stand in it and marinate in it. Like, that's it. We're gonna stand here with this trigger and that's it.

Speaker 1: Nothing bad's gonna happen and your dog, the more they experience that, the easier it gets,

Speaker 1: The easier it gets. But anything that makes your dog uncomfortable is worth practicing. Get creative. I mean, we think of everything we can. So I had a dog out there the other day and we were throwing tennis rackets around and we would pick up the place cotton, throw it around, we were banging the folding chairs. Just anything that makes noise, any kind of visual, right? And we're not throwing it at the dog. The goal isn't to touch the dog or hit the dog in any way. Um, that's a lot, right? I'm not saying you can't do that kind of training.

Speaker 1: Like, especially if, you know, I'm sure you know, for instance, dogs are doing like sport work and stuff. We wanna build that confidence level up just absolutely as high as we can. But it's like any kind of a visual, any kind of a sound, anything that startles your dog, it's like exposure, exposure, exposure.

Speaker 1: And then all you need is just a way to keep them from fleeing and to physically sort of tell them, oh, we're just gonna stand here, right? And pressure and release is just a fantastic, fantastic way to do that. Um, but otherwise, you know, you can go through the training process of laying a good obedience foundation and layering an eco over it, which is what we do. Um, and then you can use that to your advantage too. Um, so that's, that's something we do a lot, a lot here. And it's amazing how quickly dogs will develop.

Speaker 1: Um, and again, always a genetic component. You never know how far you can take them until you do it. Uh, usually there's a little bit of a chipping away process. But I will say one thing that I've noticed is it often will look really sloppy, um, and kind of messy.

Speaker 1: And like the dog just can't tolerate it. And then when you come back to it, you know, a day later or two days later, it looks different, right? So having that little break in between things really seem to sink in and internalize and things might look better next time. So also, don't get discouraged if you're out working on something and you're like, wow, my dog just can't do this. Like it, you know, we went, we were out there for an hour and it didn't look any better at the end of the hour. You don't know.

Speaker 1: You might go back the next day and it's, it looks better. There's learning happening all the time, even if it doesn't look like it. So just keep in mind, what is my dog learning? What is the pattern I'm giving them? Am I using my pressure and release correctly?

Speaker 1: Am I using my command? Am I eco correctly? If that's what you're doing, um, because it is important to understand how that works, right? And precise timing is important in those situations because we're trying to pair associations between fleeing and not fleeing, right? So that we can get the dog to voluntarily choose not to flee. Like that is the goal. And then it just gets easier and easier and easier from there. Alright guys, that is gonna be it for today's episode. Please, please, please do send me your ideas, um, things you wanna hear, discuss, or questions that you might have to Kati at Diamond Canine dot com.

Speaker 1: That's Kati, Kati at diamond, C-A-N-I-N e.com. Would love, love, love to hear from you. Thank you so much for joining me today, and I look forward to the next time.