Dogs Behave Better When The Rules Exist All The Time—This Has Nothing To Do With Commands!

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Welcome to Off Leash and Unfiltered. Trigger warning. I'm Kati Peppe, delivering the truth in dog training.

Hey everybody, this is your host, Kati Peppe. Before we jump in, I just wanted to take a quick second and remind you to hit the subscribe button because that helps us so, so, so much. We appreciate every subscribe and follow, and we have so much valuable information we wanna share with you. So we don't want you to miss an episode. Without further ado, let's jump in. Hey everyone, thanks for joining me today for another episode of Off Leash and Unfiltered. Ha, hope you're having an amazing day, whatever it is you're doing right now while you're listening to me.

01:00 — Kati prepares for Rumi’s go-home lesson and mentions four more dogs going home the…

Well, we have Rumi going home today, so that's exciting. In fact, I'm trying to squeeze this in before her go-home lesson, and I don't have a ton of time. So, um, I wish there was someone here to keep me from going off on any tangents because I gotta get this done <laugh> today.

So what happens when Joyce isn't here too? Like I, there's nobody to keep me in line. Um, she's not with me today for the go-home lesson, which sucks. I hate that, but it is what it is. Um, it's gonna be great. Anyway, it's a go-home lesson that I'm looking forward to as I usually am. Um, but I, I think this training is gonna be amazing for them and I think they're gonna do super with it. So, so those go-home lessons are always a ton of fun. Um, Rumi has done great. She was just a two-week dog.

She was a two-weeker. We've had a lot of three-week programs lately. Um, she was just two weeks really just here for obedience stuff in like some basic manners and, um, really blew it out of the, out of the water. So I think they're gonna be really happy.

I'm excited to show them, show them everything. And, um, next week we have four dogs going home, so stay tuned for that. I'm gonna try to record some of Rumi's go-home lesson. Of course, it's hard when I'm here by myself too, to <laugh> operate all the, all the equipment and the cameras and the phones, and we've got, um, people dropping dogs off for boarding too. Um, so I'm gonna be stretched pretty thin, but I'm gonna try, I'm gonna try to get some of it on, uh, camera. I think, uh, people like seeing what's going on during these go-home lessons.

It's kind of kind of nice to get some insight into what that looks like, especially if you're thinking about doing a program. But anyway, let's get down to business. Here's a thing that keeps coming up, and I'm sure I'm gonna be talking about it here in just a few minutes at Rumi's go-home lesson.

And that is, and we talked about it the other day, we had a, a follow-up lesson with Birdie, um, and Birdie's owners the other day. And it was a fantastic follow-up lesson. We were talking about, um, mostly the same things that we're always talking about in those go-home lessons and you, because the thing we find, guys, is that people go home with their dogs and they get really usually pretty good at using the e-collar to get the behaviors they want the dog to do, um, and to stop the behaviors that they don't want the dog to do.

But they get good at using the e-collar to do that in the moment. But most people don't get really good with using the e-collar in a way that changes the dog's behavior long term so that—not so that the e-collar like goes away, right?

But so that you're not so heavily dependent on it. Um, you don't always have to make sure it's on you, that it's in close range, and you're not pushing the button every time you ask your dog for something, right? Or maybe there's a certain situation where it's like, oh, my dog always makes me tap e-collar in this situation. Um, or my dog always gets too excited in this situation and I always have to use the e-collar to help them calm down. Um, we want people, we wanna push people around that corner where they get to a point where, um, and, and it looks different for everybody, right?

Because everyone's different and every dog is different. So not every dog is gonna look the same, guys. Um, and the more behavioral stuff your dog has going on, the more feedback they're probably gonna need, right?

And for a longer period of time. And that's totally understandable. Um, but it's really common for people to get stuck in what we call the nag zone, where they're just having to use that e-collar all the time for everything. And the dog never really changes. Their perspective on you doesn't really change. And so their behavior doesn't, like, they don't choose to make the right choices on their own, right? You always have to, um, remind them <laugh>. And so we use those follow-up lessons to push people around that corner. And Birdie <laugh> is such a classic, classic example of that.

She's a super drivey, excitable dog, and so she's just out of her mind half the time. And so, um, her levels tend to be higher and, um, most people when they go home are a little bit afraid of that too. So even if they do it, they're not doing it consistently in a way that makes the dog believe there's real accountability and that there's always real accountability.

05:00 — Kati argues that dogs must expect tangible consequences for unwanted behavior.

And that really is the key, guys. It's like your dog has to believe, they have to believe that you will truly hold them accountable, meaning tangible negative consequences for crappy behavior, right? Um, and if they don't believe that, then a lot of dogs just aren't gonna give you what you're looking for. And Birdie's a classic example of that. And, and granted, to be fair, like I'm, I'm not saying like she's a bad dog, like people tend to humanize it. Like the dog's choosing not to listen, right? You hear all the time, the dog is eager to please, the dog wants me to be happy, the dog wants to learn, dog wants to be good.

No, they don't. They're dogs, they're animals. They wanna do what works out best for them. That's normal. Um, Birdie's no exception, but even more than that, guys, like, they don't have the ability to think about it.

Your dog isn't sitting there going, well, I'm gonna do what I want. Like, that's not what's happening, right? So it's not necessarily about quote-unquote defiance, right? Although there's definitely an element of that and dogs just kind of flipping you off <laugh>, there, there certainly is. Um, but you know, the overarching thing, especially with a dog like Birdie, is it's just the brain, right? This is a physiological thing. Behavior comes from a physical thing that's happening in the brain. Um, and her brain is just, it's on coke. Like, it's just, it's <laugh>. It's, it's just crazy, right?

She's out of her mind. Um, the brain's going a hundred miles an hour, super impulsive, super jacked up, um, on adrenaline and all these things, and she's going to follow those impulses unless we do something to change what's chemically happening in the brain, right? And so, um, her owners had to take it up a notch in some cases, right?

They had to raise the bar in some cases. So for instance, the door, um, they had started kind of giving commands at the door, which if you listen to my stuff enough, if you follow our social media, you know, that's probab— You probably know that that's, that's not our process at all. And that this is the exact reason why this isn't our process is because we don't want you to get into a position where you're managing the dog all the time. We want them just to listen to you, just to be good, just to make the right choices on their own without you constantly having to intervene and give commands and tap the e-collar constantly and give them reminders.

It's like, no, I just wanna go through the door and I just want you to be good, right? And I don't wanna have to go through a million steps to get that.

So our process at the door is we just correct the dog. If they're too forward at the door, that's it, right? And if you don't do that, you can actually end up making your problem worse, which I think was happening with Birdie. She was getting more and more wound up, right? Like a spring. So it's like if you can actually get her to sit or lay down, then she's down there just getting more and more and more amped up just waiting for that release, just waiting, um, to be able to go through the door. And so the act of waiting actually gets harder and harder and harder instead of just correcting her forwardness, correcting her, um, excitement and arousal, resulting in a calmer dog who's more polite and focused at the door and says, I'm just waiting here for whatever to see what you want me to do.

Right? And then, then the whole thing gets easier. Easier. And the funny thing is, the, the thing they actually wanted to look at was the heel. Um, but we addressed the door. And, um, before we went outside, we, I just so happened to put her in a down and I, I gave her, um, a substantial correction for breaking her down. And guess what? When we went outside, her owners did the door with her a few times, 'cause we wanted them to build that muscle memory so we make sure they don't fall into, um, the habits that they're used to doing at home.

And we, we went outside and she put her in a heel. And guess what? That heel just looked golden. It just looked so golden, right? And what I, what I heard from them both after their puppy program and after their e-collar program, was that they hated walking her. They had to nag her, nag her, nag her. She wouldn't walk nice. She wouldn't walk nice. You, even after the e-collar.

09:00 — Kati advises judging feedback by the dog’s behavioral response rather than a predetermined collar…

Well, we fix that in five minutes, right? So you have to listen to the dog, like the dog will tell you what works. And if you don't, then you just get what you get, right? If you have a number in your head or you have a reaction in your head that you wanna avoid, then you just get what you get. But once you can break outta that and you can see, oh, I am actually just not doing the thing that my dog requires, right? It's not me telling you to turn it up to a certain number, the dog tells you, right?

And you'll know because the behavior won't change. And again, this is for trained dogs, guys, it's for, guys, for dogs that know what we're asking for. Dogs that know the collar. Um, but whether they do or not, this still stands true for all dogs, that if it's not a tangible consequence that they care about, nothing's going to change.

Right? Nothing's going to change. And so some of us get stuck in that place where we're providing what I call a really gray experience for the dog, right? And that number kind of floats around the same window all the time. And so sometimes it's a little much, and sometimes it's not enough, but it's always in the same ballpark, right? It doesn't matter what the dog is doing. Like if they just need a little tap on the shoulder to remind them to settle or not track things. Um, or if they're breaking a known command in an environment where they've done it a thousand times and they're just blowing you off, it's like the communication coming from the e-collar is always kind of the same, right?

And so it kind of starts to become meaningless. It's like, it's just this thing that taps me on the shoulder sometimes and I don't change my behavior for it.

Like I don't respond to it really in any meaningful way. I don't, um, change my future decisions, right? It just kind of comes and goes and comes and goes. Um, and that will usually take you backwards. So we're really, really, um, we really recommend, like you're up and down on that dial. You're changing that intensity all the time based on what's happening, uh, based on what you're trying to get, based on what motivates your dog, based on what your dog's state of mind is and all these things. Um, we're all over that dial, but a few meaningful corrections.

And that dog was as good, good as gold. The rest of the lesson, heeled like a dream. Very polite at the door, very focused on her owner. Her owner gained relevance five minutes, right? And that's how it should have been because the dog went through a three-week board-and-train.

She knew all the things, right? But her brain wasn't receiving the feedback that was meaningful enough for her to go, oh, I guess I better prioritize them over the environment. And again, not to humanize it, right, because it's just, it's the brain. The brain's just doing what brains do normal, right? Not that Birdie's normal because she's, she's a little bit crazy. Um, but anyway, there I am off on my tangent. See, how much time have I wasted? It wasn't a waste though. I think there's some good information in there and some good points, uh, mm-hmm <affirmative>.

But two, there's some overlap here. So commands, right? You've heard me say like, commands won't fix your problems. And that's true, 110%. We definitely can use them in a way that helps. Um, you can get a lot of leverage outta those commands, but commands alone, like just teaching your dog how to do a command, that's not gonna fix anything.

Um, and I think what people really struggle with, um, whether they've done formal training or they've trained their dog themselves, even if they've done a board-and-train. Um, but whether you have or not, I think across the board, one thing I I see and hear that everybody kind of struggles with is understanding that what most people want, right, is they want their dog to behave. And well, here's the thing, guys. If you want your dog to behave, number one, you have to expect it outside of training sessions, okay? So your dog will know this is a training session and they'll do everything you want them to do, especially if there's rewards involved, right?

But then when you're in real life, the treat pouch is not on you, the leash isn't on or whatever, right? Things look different. The dog knows it looks different, it knows it's not a training lesson. It knows school's not in session and they stop behaving.

14:00 — Kati says behavioral expectations must apply throughout the day, even when owners schedule dedicated…

You have to expect it all the time. So your dog needs feedback on their behavior 24 hours a day. You can absolutely carve out time and have a lesson working on behavioral things. I recommend that, right? So you can be strategic, you can introduce whatever triggers it is that needs to be introduced and you are ready to deal with it. You can try some things. You can see how your dog a hundred percent do, but an hour later, two hours later, the next day, whatever, when you're not in your lesson, you still have to give your dog feedback.

You can't just stop doing that. So people think they only have to give the dog feedback during a lesson. That's not gonna work, has to be all the time because behavior is happening <laugh>, duh. All the time, right? Um, but my point was going to be, I think there's a really big gap in knowledge and communication about this thing because people understand the concept of correcting their dog for not doing a command or breaking a command. Um, or even just doing a bad behavior like jumping on somebody, right? Or barking at somebody. That is pretty straightforward and easy to understand.

But I think it gets missed so much of the time that your dog needs feedback from you for doing things that you don't like, for being in a state of mind that you don't like,

Right? So if you have someone come into your house and your dog goes ape shit bananas, even if they don't jump, right, if they're just too much, you gotta tell 'em that. And people don't, they don't tell their dog that that alone is not allowed. It's okay to tell your dog that. You need to tell your dog that or it won't change. And see, I think in a lot of people's minds they're thinking, well, the dog's not really doing anything bad, but they are, they're in a bad state of mind. They're in a state of mind.

You don't allow, their energy level is too much in this context and nobody is telling them. You have to tell them. Or back to Birdie the other day. At first,

You know, her owner got the door cleaned up, but then as soon as they went out the door outside, Birdie got right ahead of her on the stairs and was kind of pulling her over to the grass. No, right? You gotta tell her that. Um, just being polite at the door isn't enough. Your dog is supposed to be polite all the time. It's never okay for them to pull you. So I take it a step further. When I have a dog on a leash, like a short four- to six-foot nylon leash, I pretty much always expect to heel unless I give them the B word, right?

18:00 — Kati expects dogs to walk calmly beside her without pulling, even when she has…

I always want them next to me and I always want them calm and polite. They are never allowed to walk ahead of me, God forbid, pull me.

But that sets a precedent, guys, and that's an expectation all the time, even if I don't say heel, right? So even if you don't give your dog the heel command, okay, are they allowed to pull you and they're not in a heel? Are they allowed to drag you off into a ditch 'cause they have to potty? No, it's never okay. Right? So there are, there are things that are just not okay. It doesn't, just because the dog's not in a command doesn't mean it's okay. There are rules all the time, right? We all have them, we all have rules all the time.

So you can think of a million examples, right? But just because you punch out on the time clock doesn't mean all the rules are gone away. It's like if you work at a grocery store, you can't punch out and then go steal a bag of potato chips. It's not allowed <laugh>. Um, rules are all the time. Now what your rules are are unique to you. But you have to know what do you allow and what do you not allow? And there might be some things you allow that you shouldn't, right? Just depending on who your dog is, like maybe those things are hurting you more than you think.

And that was a good example. I think a lot of people would say, well, you know, it doesn't matter. I'm taking her there and anyway, we're going over to the grass. I'm gonna let her potty. It's like, okay, but you have a very forward excitable drive dog. And she didn't say that, but it's just an example because those are the types of things we do hear a lot. Um, they were actually blown away and did fantastic, fantastic. Um, I think they're gonna do great. But the, that is just an example of something that we hear frequently is like, well, I don't mind this.

Well, I don't mind that. And it's like, okay, but you're allowing your dog to feed into these impulses, some of which you do mind. So you're leaving all this on the table. You're, you're not leveraging these things. It's gonna take you way longer to get where you're going.

But rules are all the time. Dogs are never allowed to bark. I don't care if they're in command. And a little play barking, yeah, I guess who cares, right? But I mean like barking at, I hear a noise, I see a pedestrian. No, you're not allowed to bark at that stuff. Um, you're not allowed to pull me. You're not allowed to drag me into the woods 'cause you have to go to the bathroom. That's right. Even if the dog has to go to the bathroom, it's like, well, I guess if you can't wait until I break you, then you're gonna go right there because you can't drag me over onto the grass.

Dragging me isn't allowed. That's an all-the-time thing. So think about what your rules are and make sure you're actually giving your dog feedback about them, um, all day, whether they're in a command or not, whether it's a training lesson or not. That behavioral feedback, guys, has to be coming in and it has to be coming in in a way that's actually meaningful that your dog cares about. Otherwise it might work in the moment, right? So we always say like, Joyce is really good about telling people in these go-home lessons. Like just because it works in the moment doesn't mean you've gotten the job done, right?

22:00 — Kati says effective corrections should produce a substantial reduction in unwanted behavior rather than…

Because you should start to see actual change long term. Doesn't mean it'll be one correction and done, although sometimes it is. But you should see a dramatic reduction and eventually hopefully elimination, right? So with most corrections, we're hoping maybe a few, right?

And we're done. Depends on what we're dealing with, I suppose, right? Depends on how much of this involves the nervous system. Um, but generally speaking, like if you have to tell your dog every day and it's been three months, four months, six months, a year, you gotta look at your process because just because it works, see, people see it work in the moment and they think, oh yeah, great, I have a way to stop it now. And like, they're so excited, right? They think that's as good as it gets. And it's like, no, no, no, you're not, you're not there.

Um, it should go away. Like you should be able to actually stop telling your dog not to do that. That's the goal. And I think people's standards now are just so incredibly low because for so long now they've been being fed this purely positive bullshit where you have to give the dog a biscuit every two seconds. People are just happy. They don't have to do that, right? And so if they give their dog a little correction and they stop what they're doing, they're immensely relieved. And it's like, that's good, I'm glad, but you didn't get it done right because the dogs didn't do it again later and they do it again tomorrow and they do it again the next day and next week.

Um, and that's not the goal. So you should actually be able to stop pushing the button, guys.

That's the goal. So if it works in the moment, great, but if your dog keeps doing it, you gotta look at your process because think about how golden that is. Yes, it's great that you now have a way to like stop or interrupt the behavior. That's fantastic. But can you imagine if your dog just never did it in the first place, never thought about doing it, never tried to do it? You didn't have to say no, you didn't have to correct them, you didn't have to interrupt it. The whole thing just goes away. Yeah, that could be you, right?

But you gotta look at your process if that's not happening.

Um, and your process needs to be all the time because if it's not, your dog will know. And your dog is looking at the entire environment all the time. And they'll know: when she's on the phone, she doesn't correct me; when he's making dinner, he doesn't correct me; when Aunt Susie is here, they don't correct me; if the collar's not on, they don't correct me. Your dog will know. Your dog will know what the conditions are. So there, there can't be any. The condition has to be, this has to be the only condition for you to be successful.

If you do this unwanted behavior, there is always a tangible negative consequence. And the great news is if you do it correctly and it's meaningful, like we just talked about, you don't have to be consistent anymore because the behavior goes away, right? Because see what most people do is they screw themselves because by being too low, too gentle, too inconsistent, all these things, what ends up happening is, again, you might interrupt it in the moment, but the dog's gonna do it again.

And so you have to be consistent and do it again. And then the dog's gonna do it again, right? 'Cause you're too, too low, it's not impactful. Dog's gonna do it again. Then you have to be consistent and do it again, right? So it makes more work for you. 'Cause you have to keep on it, on it, on it all the time. Instead of get your message across, the behavior goes away. And now you don't have to do anything else. You're done, right? Your dog's not gonna keep doing it. So here's the thing, guys. You're human, right?

So no one's gonna be consistent. Consistent, right? Forever. If your dog has this behavior that they do multiple times a day every day, nobody's gonna be consistent forever. So in order to truly be successful, you gotta get that behavior knocked out. Otherwise, of course you're gonna fail.

There's no other choice, but you get the behaviors knocked out, then you're good, right? There won't be any missed opportunities because dog's just not gonna do it anymore, right? But again, that feedback's gotta come in. And if there are times when it doesn't, your dog will know that. Um, your dog needs feedback on their behavior all the time. And that's why we tell people, leave the e-collar on pretty much all the time, right? Move it around so that they don't get pressure sores 'cause it's kind of tight. Um, but unless it's charging and your dog is like in their kennel resting, it's on all the time.

27:00 — Kati criticizes limiting e-collar use to lessons because dogs continue behaving outside formal training.

And I'm blown away at the number of trainers that are like, no, no, no, you just put it on, you have your lesson and then you take it off. Well, that's great if all you care about is teaching stupid commands.

But if you actually want your dog to behave, they don't stop having behavior <laugh> when you take the collar off. So how is that supposed to work? No. If your e-collar is your communication tool and it's your tool for accountability and reminders and settling and all these wonderful things, it needs to be on, it needs to be on unless you have a backup plan for what you're gonna do when it's not on. And again, your dog will know. Your dog is very smart <laugh>. They are the masters at discovering the pattern. And I promise you, they will know what your patterns are.

They will know them better than you do.

So that's it, guys. Rules all the time, right? Good behavior's expected all the time. Whether you're in a command or not, feedback about behavior needs to be all the time because behavior is all the time. Never shuts off, your dog never stops exhibiting behavior. So that feedback has to be coming in when it happens. And for the record, that means positive feedback as well, right? So I love what they call free shaping. For instance, let's say your dog sometimes, um, is a little bit of a nuisance when you're cooking dinner and they're always wandering around in the kitchen.

Maybe they have too much energy, maybe they're getting into stuff or maybe they're under your feet and following you around. If you see them lay down out of the way, click, feed, sure, why not? They'll start to do that more, right? But you can't, you're not gonna do that forever. Like food forever. Food forever, food forever. So another conversation might have to come down the road if your dog is, is doing something you don't like, but that doesn't mean you can't reward and build up things you do like when you see them happening. And anything your dog does on its own, right?

Just as a natural part of its repertoire, if you reward that, it will increase very quickly most of the time. So I love that tool. It's a great tool.

Whenever you see your dog just make a good choice or do something you like that you just wanna increase, it could be a total fluke, right? Your dog just happens to do something and you're like, oh, I like that. Okay, click, feed, great, do that. I do that. I think that's great. Um, but we're not gonna rely on food, food, food, food, food to get our dog to behave, right? So be smart. Use it strategically. It's like, yeah, if I see something I want replicated, absolutely I'll feed it, right? Assuming the dog's into the food, um, yeah.

'Cause then your brain's gonna go, oh, I'm gonna do this again. I'm gonna do this again, right? But that doesn't mean that your dog's not gonna do the thing that annoys you, right? But you might naturally get a little bit less of it because they're doing more of this other thing that gets fed. That is true a hundred percent, but it doesn't inhibit the thing that's unwanted, right? The only way to do that is with a correction, with a punishment.

And so if your dog has an an unwanted behavior, something you truly want to stop, normally at some point you're gonna have to have that conversation. No, correction, right? But the way you get the best results when we're talking about behavior is a combination of both. I build up what I like and I squash what I don't. And yes, there's a little nuance to that, but generally speaking, that's the framework, guys. And that's how you're gonna get the best results. But the feedback has to be coming in and it has to be meaningful and it has to be all the time, not just when it's convenient.

Hey guys, thanks for joining us today. I really hope you enjoyed the show. If there's a specific topic you'd like to hear discussed, you can send that to me directly via email or fan mail. Just jump down into the show notes. That information will be there for you. I really look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for supporting the show and I look forward to next time.