Q&A-Untrainable dogs, old dogs, do ecollars create aggression, and more

00:00 — Kati Peppe opens Off Leash and Unfiltered with a trigger warning and asks listeners…

Welcome to Off Leash and Unfiltered. Trigger warning. I'm Kati Peppe, delivering the truth in dog training.

Hey everybody, this is your host, Kati Peppe. Before we jump in, I just wanted to take a quick second and remind you to hit the subscribe button because that helps us so, so, so much. We appreciate every subscribe and follow, and we have so much valuable information we wanna share with you. So we don't want you to miss an episode. Without further ado, let's jump in. Hey guys, thanks for joining me today. Hopefully you're enjoying this amazing summer weather. Um, at least that's what we're having here in Maine. So if you're one of our clients here in this state, hopefully you're getting to enjoy this amazing weather.

It's giving me an opportunity to use, uh, dogs as an excuse to go out to the beach and Sebago Lake, and I'm like, well, you know, I gotta take the dog on a field trip, so might as well go to the lake <laugh>.

So that's been working out really, really well and the dogs love riding around in the Jeep with the top down and the wind. So it's been awesome. I could get used to this. I wish it would stay this way all the time, you know, but it'll be snowing before you know it. <laugh> You're welcome, man. We've had a lot going on here, and May was just an absolutely insane month. Super, super crazy. Uh, we had so many dogs and as you know, Joyce went to Greece for a couple of weeks, or as you may know, if you have been listening to my recent episodes, she's back now.

Um, she was sick when she got back. She's almost better <laugh>. So we're almost, uh, fully functioning again as a unit, uh, thank goodness and some exciting stuff happening right now. We have Fire Blazer and I got her name right.

Yay me. Um, we have called this dog every name under the sun. Um, so she's Fire Blazer, but you know, when you're <laugh>, I have a hard time remembering the dog's names anyway, because like we just have so many dogs, obviously in and out all the time that I feel like my grandmother when I was like six, you know, when she rattles through like every grandchild's name, um, that's like me with the dogs, <laugh> the dogs, and I'm like, my God, am I getting old or what? Uh, but I think, you know, it's just, we have so many dogs in and out all the time.

But Fire Blazer has been Trailblazer. That's Joyce <laugh>. Joyce has been gone. Trailblazer, um, Stargazer, Sun Blazer, just <laugh>.

Uh, we've called this dog everything under the sun that you can imagine. Um, besides her name, <laugh>. So we've been working hard on, on remembering, uh, Fire Blazer's name. See, I almost couldn't remember it there. And we have, uh, she's here for severe reactivity and so she'll make some interesting, um, videos and material to talk about, um, to show you guys because she is born of a bear hunter. Her dad was a bear hunter. Um, it was an accidental litter from what I understand. And, uh, she definitely, definitely has that intensity and that drive. So she's not an easy dog.

03:00 — Kati introduces a challenging reactivity case and Tiki, a feisty four-month-old Chihuahua.

And so, uh, a really, really good case I think to share with folks that are dealing with reactivity, um, especially if you do have a challenging dog. And we have little Tiki here who is super, super tiny. He's a four-month-old Chihuahua and he can also be pretty feisty <laugh>.

So if you know anything about Chihuahuas, that probably doesn't surprise you. Um, but so that's our, that's our group right now. We have a small group. We have another puppy coming in today. We've had lots of puppies signing up. Uh, we're going puppy crazy, which is interesting because I just restructured our programs to not have standalone puppy training. Um, but it's good, it's a good thing. I love getting puppies, uh, and helping people get off to the right start with their puppy, especially now that we have restructured our programs. And we know these are all people that are really serious about getting their dog trained up and, and having them reach their full potential because they, when they sign up their puppy, now they commit to bring their dog back, um, when they're a little bit older for their e-collar training.

So super exciting stuff, but all that exciting stuff aside today, we're here to talk about the training potentially having a negative impact on your dog or your dog's behavior. So here are some of the questions I frequently, frequently get that I wanna address today. I get, have you ever had a dog you couldn't train?

Um, have you ever had a dog that got aggressive with the e-collar, like the e-collar made them aggressive, uh, or the prong collar, make them aggressive? Have you ever had that happen? Is it worth training my dog? If they're older, can they still learn? Is it harder? So people think once their dog is over like one or two years old, it's just hopeless to train their dog. Uh, so we'll talk about that. Can you fix a behavior that's genetic or do you have to just live with it or deal with it or manage it? In fact, I was on the phone yesterday, uh, doing a phone consultation with a nice lady who has always had Great Pyrenees dogs and she has a puppy coming, also Great Pyrenees.

And she was telling me basically that her standards were very low. She really didn't expect much because it's such an independent breed.

And in the past she's never been able to really train them to come back when called, um, or to do much of anything if they didn't want to <laugh>. So that's a great question. We'll talk about that, but let's get into it. So when people ask me if I've ever had a dog I couldn't train. Uh, and it's funny because I, I, we get that question actually quite often. Um, and when you, if you do a program with us, when you sign the paperwork, that clause is actually in there that there is no guarantee that your dog will learn anything <laugh>.

And I usually tell people we've never had that happen, but we've come close a couple of times. Um, and I can certainly think of some dogs that really, really struggled, were very, very challenging. And usually those dogs, they all seem to kind of fit the same profile type, and that is, they're oftentimes, they're small dogs and this has nothing to do with them being small.

07:00 — Kati associates learning difficulties with small, older dogs that have never been expected to…

But, um, that has been a correlation because they often belong to older folks too. So the biggest pattern we see with dogs that have trouble learning, they are small, they are older, they belong to older folks, and they've never had to learn anything before. And if I am, to be honest, the biggest factor there in the dog really having trouble is that they've never had to learn anything before. So once your dog gets to be that old, if they haven't practiced learning, then learning is hard. Um, and so that's gonna tie in nicely to our, our next one we'll do, we'll talk about that one next.

Um, but the truth is, we actually have had some dogs that didn't really learn much. I'm not gonna say they learned nothing, um, but they really didn't learn much. We didn't get very far. Now I can probably think of two or three dogs, uh, during the entire course of my career dog training, which now has been what, at least eight years.

Um, I can think of two or three dogs that would go into that category that we really didn't teach them anything. Um, and they were not board-and-train dogs because their behaviors were so intense and severe. And I don't normally take those dogs for board-and-train, um, A, because I have a daughter who lives in my house. So if the dog is super, super intent on harming people, I don't usually bring those dogs home. We get aggressive dogs and I'll board and train them, and that's fine. But it depends on the context. If they just see people and want to attack them, and they try and they try intensely <laugh>, no matter the situation, that's a dog that can't come home with me.

So, and pretty much both of the dogs that I'm talking about had that behavior. And these were dogs that no matter what we did, like we couldn't work with them.

We couldn't train them. Um, so one was a hunting dog that should probably should have gone to a hunting home, but he didn't. He went to a family home, um, up here. He was bred in the South, and this dog would attack people in its own family in its own house. Um, it would bully them, it would push them around, it would tell them what they could and couldn't do. And if you tried to put a leash and prong on the dog and just start guiding the dog around and giving 'em clear instruction and telling 'em where to go and what to do, and just teaching him things, um, and not in like a harsh manner, just our normal training, guys, like leash and p-prong on the dog.

You got food, you do this, you do that, you know, teach 'em the words, teach 'em the commands, walk him through the behaviors. He wasn't having it.

He wasn't having it. Um, and despite being consistent and trying to get the dog over that hump and get the people to start to be able to build a new relationship with the dog where they were calm and assertive, uh, but neutral and unemotional and just guide the dog through the motions and set the boundaries and teach 'em the commands, it just, it wasn't working. It just, they couldn't do it. Um, and the dog would eat their corrections and it, it just, it wasn't getting better. So that was one case. And then, you know, and cramming a hunting dog into a pet dog box can be very difficult.

Um, but usually we can make it work, but just there's sometimes we just can't. And it just depends on the dog. It depends on the animal. Um, it depends on the people too. So, and then the other case was a German Shepherd who any new stimuli just set him off into attack mode. It could be a visual, it could be a smell. I think usually, usually there's a visual involved. Um, but even smell would start to trigger that response.

11:00 — Kati describes a muzzled dog whose responses to sounds were unusually severe.

Uh, sounds certainly would trigger the response. And it was definitely on the abnormal end of the spectrum. Meaning, for instance, the first time this person came into the building with their dog, the dog was muzzled. Of course, I'm sitting down, which right off the bat makes you less threatening to a dog. I'm sitting down and I have the paperwork and her dog, and we don't allow dogs. We, we tell people, you know, when they drop their dog off, not to let their dog come over and, um, sniff us or otherwise engage with us until we say it's okay.

And this is kind of why we, we say that, um, this particular dog we knew had a problem, but sometimes people don't realize that their dog has a problem, um, or that their dog is kind of teetering on the edge or that their dog is unsure or uncertain.

So we just don't allow people to let their dogs come up to us. And this is why, uh, so the dog is muzzled, the German Shepherd comes over to me while I'm sitting down and sniffs me. And I don't even look at the dog. I completely ignore the dog. There are very few dogs that are going to attack that person unless right out of the gate they wanna attack you. And this dog didn't. This dog came in and didn't actually seem that interested in me, was very anxious, um, and whiny. And that's not uncommon for a German Shepherd.

But then he came over and just sort of sniffed me like a normal dog would, just curiously. And I totally ignored it. And then he tried to attack me. And that's not normal dog behavior. Um, and I mean, I take the word normal with a grain of salt, right?

Because it's like, what really is normal? Like what does that mean, right? This is what all I mean when I say that is it's extremely, extremely rare to see that behavior pattern in a dog because I've never seen it any other time. That's the only time I've ever seen that. Um, I've had dogs try to attack me, but they didn't exhibit that behavior sequence, right? So I've had lots of dogs come through the door that just wanted to attack me or dogs that came through the door and when I approached them, they wanted to attack me.

Sure, we get that all the time. Um, but a dog that comes up and just curiously, uh, sniffs me in a normal, seemingly normal manner and then decides to attack me even though I'm not even looking at him. That's weird. <laugh>. And that dog did not, um, he did not make progress with us.

I mean, he did learn some obedience commands and the owner was able to do those in a low-distraction environment. Um, or any environment that he got really used to. As long as there weren't any, there was nothing around, right? But the second he saw, heard or smelled anything, you could not reel him back in. There was no way to do it. He just wanted to go chase down and attack <laugh>. Um, and so he would chase cars and if anybody got out, he would bite them. Um, it was a really, really unfortunate situation. And my recommendation for those folks was to euthanize their dog.

And I don't make that recommendation lightly. I've only recommended that two or three times. And it's the dogs that I'm talking about right now. Um, because at the end of the day, if I believe that a dog is a threat to other people, and I believe that the dog cannot be trained to a level of reliability where they can be at least safely managed, right? Even if it's a dog that can't be like trusted off leash out in the wild, like that's okay. A lot of people have those dogs. But if you have a dog that's going to be trying to get through your door and go attack people, and I don't think there's anything you can do to even hamper that.

15:00 — For dogs she considers unsafe, Kati tells owners she would choose euthanasia if the…

Um, that's not a safe dog. That's not a safe dog. And it's al—basically, it's almost certain that somebody will get hurt, somebody's going to get hurt. Um, so in those situations, I, you know, and I won't even say I recommended euthanasia. I tell the person, honestly, if this was my dog, I would put them down. Um, and that's a wicked hard conversation to have. And I think maybe the only reason I'm able to have it is because that was me. I have done it. I have had that dog and we actually did teach her lots and we inhibited lots.

Um, we made a ton of progress and I had her for three years and I actually thought we were gonna be okay and then we just weren't. And I said, that's it. And it's not responsible to rehome a dog like that because again, someone's going to get hurt. So you're just passing the buck, right? You're passing off the responsibility onto somebody else and you know how much of a liability the dog is. And so that's irresponsible in my opinion. And same thing with shelters, rescues. They're not gonna be able to fix this problem and this someone's going to get hurt.

So I made the decision to euthanize my dog. And so when I talk to these people, I can totally understand being in their shoes. Um, but luckily it hardly ever happens. Hardly ever, right? So, like I said, two or three over the course of my entire career, and then we've had some dogs that were really difficult.

Um, but they learned and they got there, right? Sometimes it takes longer. Um, or sometimes they seem like they're not learning because they just, they don't wanna do it. They don't wanna work with us. A lot of dogs, they don't even wanna eng—engage, not really a lot, but we get them. They don't wanna engage with us. They only have eyes for their owners and they just turn their nose up at us the whole time they're here. Um, but ultimately in the end they go home knowing everything and they do great. So very, very, very rare to have a dog we can't train.

Um, and we call those one-percenters, but the fact is it's less than 1% <laugh>. So, but tying in nicely to the next one is, you know, if you can train an old dog, it's like, well, is there any point in training my dog?

18:00 — Kati argues that training older dogs is worthwhile when they have enough remaining lifespan…

You know, she's five years old. Yeah, yeah, there is. So unless you think your dog is going to, um, die of old age before you get the full value for whatever it costs you to train them, it's absolutely worth it. So assuming your dog is gonna live an average lifespan and is going to have another five to 10 years, if you want those years to be better, a hundred percent train your dog. Um, Joyce, when she met me, it was for training and her dogs were, I think, five and seven at the time, or five and six or some somewhere in there.

We have Zena right now who's seven years old. We have Fire Blazer, got her name right again. Um, she's here for training right now for board-and-train. She's five years old. Um, and we recently had Charlie too, who was five years old and did, he was doing amazing. He's not done yet. He's doing private lessons. Um, I actually bumped into his owner the other day and so excited to have them hopefully finish their program, uh, 'cause he was doing really, really great. But if your dog is older, they can absolutely learn, guys. They don't get brain damage just because they're old.

They still learn.

Of course they do. And they still learn the same way. Yes, it's true. It might take a little more reps, especially if your dog is kind of spoiled or they're just used to getting their way all the time. They're not used to you ever really following through. And especially, especially if, like I said earlier, they've never had to learn anything before. So learning itself is a skill to be built. The more your dog learns, the better they get at learning. So when I hear someone say their dog is older, but that they work with them all the time and they, you know, they did puppy training and occasionally they took private lessons.

And I know their dog has been like working and learning and engaging with them and learning. I think this person have no problem. This dog is gonna learn just fine. If they tell me their dog's, you know, 5, 6, 7 years old and they've never done anything with them and they've never really been able to teach them their commands.

You know, maybe they know one or two, maybe they know sit, maybe they don't gimme your paw or something silly like that. Um, it's like, you know, they're probably gonna be a little bit harder. They're probably gonna take longer, right? But part of it just has to do with personality too. And like how willing is the dog to engage? Do they enjoy engaging? Do they enjoy working for food and learning the stuff? Um, do they not, right? Do they prefer getting their own way? Do they like running the show? Those things matter. Um, but I think it's when you combine some of those factors with age that then you get a dog that's a lot harder.

21:00 — Kati says age alone means little and introduces concerns about aggression during e-collar or…

But just age alone really doesn't mean much. Um, we find that those dogs graduate the programs doing just fine.

Um, so here's another really common concern is, have you ever had a dog get aggressive on the e-collar or the prong collar? So when you're using these tools, have you ever seen them make dogs aggressive? And the short answer is no. Um, but yes. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. So let me explain. Um, my first answer was no, because ultimately at the end of the day, if somebody asks me if a tool made a dog aggressive, the answer to that is just black and white. No. Tools do not make dogs aggressive. Let me say that again. Tools do not make dogs aggressive.

However, <laugh>, let's talk about what we're seeing when we do see a dog get aggressive.

So earlier in my career when I was doing in-home visits, I had a gentleman who was very, um, he had a very soft personality. And I mean, that's great. He was a very nice person, but his dog knew that. And his dog had more of a proclivity toward being pushy and entitled and demanding and sort of independent and dominant and, and just in nature, right? So that was his dog's nature. And this man's nature was to be very nurturing and affectionate and okay, those might be wonderful traits in your human relationships, but they are not with your dog, especially if you have a dog like this.

And so this particular dog would get up onto the couch and if this gentleman asked his dog to get down, he wouldn't. And if he tried to make him get down, the dog would growl. So he just stopped doing that, right? So the dog just won, and the dog would hang out on the couch. And once we started training, we obviously we have our tools on the dog. And so the dog gets on the couch, he tells him to get down, dog says, no, don't want to get down. The guy says, you're gonna get down, right?

And he can correct the dog now. Um, and the dog gets really, really upset. Growling, maybe snapped at him, okay? That's not a case of the tools made the dog aggressive.

And yeah, he even asked me that, which is wild, right? Because like the truth is he knew that was in there and that's why he didn't reach for the dog to pull the dog down because he knew the dog was like that, right? We just, we never really saw it or we didn't see it anymore because we just didn't try anymore. We, we kissed the dog's butt, right? Like we're go, okay, well there's nothing we can do about it because we know there's a risk here involved. So we're just gonna let it all slide and give the dog whatever he wants.

Um, and then when you decide, I'm drawing a boundary here, this is a rule, this is a boundary. You have to respect my authority. When I ask you to get off the couch, you get off the couch. And once the human steps up and says that, now the dog gets physical, right? So, and I'm, I think if I remember right, there were probably other things like that too. There was at least probably one or two other scenarios, um, where if he tried to make the dog do something it didn't wanna do, it would just resort to biting him, right?

But that wasn't because there was an e-collar on the dog, guys.

It was because we've been kissing the dog's heinie. It's been whatever you want. I'm not gonna do anything about it. I'm not gonna enforce the rules, I'm not gonna enforce the boundaries. And then when you decide one day you are, the dog fights back and says, now you are a doormat. I do what I want. You don't tell me what to do. Right? So that has nothing to do with the tools. The other type of example is when you have a dog who is extremely reactive and they get very, very intense and driven and they get like tunnel vision and it's like a switch flips, okay?

26:00 — Kati describes reactive dogs building arousal toward a target and redirecting when prevented from…

And they set their sights on a target and they load and load and load, meaning they get more and more stimulated, more and more aroused, staring at this target. And then they explode trying to reach the target.

And if anything prevents them from moving toward the target. And now this could be an e-collar correction. This could be a prong collar correction. This could be just a slip lead or a collar on a flat, a leash on a flat collar that prevents forward motion. That's all it takes, guys. Any of those scenarios, a dog that can't move forward toward their target will oftentimes turn around, bite you. All that drive, all that loading, all that arousal, all the escalation and frustration, they turn around. Bam, release it on you. That's not uncommon. But it's not because there's an e-collar or a prong collar on the dog.

We've seen it without those tools, right? But of course, when those tools aren't on the dog, tools aren't a conversation. I mean it's like why? Maybe it was the nylon flat collar that caused it. Because everyone knows that's fucking ridiculous. It's ridiculous. Across the board, tools do not create aggression. That is a dog who first of all is in a terrible state of mind being super reactive already, right? And obviously lacks respect for humans because even though it's sort of instantaneous and impulsive and reflexive seeming, it's still a choice.

It is 110% still a choice for your dog to turn around and just take it out on you. I know people would like to think their dog would never do that and that they can't help it, but it's not true. And so no, tools do not create aggression. They can, however, if you're unable to bring the arousal down using whatever tools you have on, 'cause that is the key to fixing this reactivity business. If you're unable to bring the arousal down, if you're unable to break the fixation and the loading with the whatever, whatever tools you're using, it doesn't matter.

It doesn't have to be the ones I use. Um, then your dog will continue to escalate and could potentially become aggressive, especially if they are frustrated and cannot get to their target. That is always a risk with a reactive or aggressive dog.

Um, and it doesn't matter what the tools are. And the only way to avoid being a target of that would be to just let your dog go <laugh>. So, um, no, the tools do not make your dog aggressive. However, I like to say they may reveal preexisting aggression, right? So your dog was already like that. You just didn't know it because you hadn't tried to draw a real boundary in a meaningful way that's actually effective. And the first time you do, you find out who your dog really is. Okay? So brings us to breed and genetics.

30:00 — Kati rejects the idea that a dog's behavior results solely from training and environment.

Yeah, they do play a role, they play a huge role. I see a lot of trainers and a lot of like social media pages, um, behaviorists, like all sorts of folks claiming that, um, basically a dog is just a result of their training and environment. And that's stupid <laugh>, to put it bluntly, okay?

It's just, it's not very smart. So, and not picking on anybody that thought that, I used to think that too. Um, but here's, here's the truth. Your dog is just not born a a blank slate. That's just not real, right? And I mean, it's, it's a little embarrassing that I thought that at one time because it's so obvious if you just sit and think about it. But I think that's the problem with today's day and age and the ability to just turn to the internet and like see, and read and watch all these videos, um, then which anybody can post, right?

It's easy to just believe something you see or read, especially if there's a high percentage of people saying it. It starts to just be real. It's like, well, it must be real, but it's not. And if you, but so we do that, right? And we don't sit and we don't think about it. And we really should, we should get back to thinking and contemplating and pondering and using our critical thinking skills. Um, 'cause it's not serving us well. Your dog is not born a a blank slate. You weren't born a a blank slate. Neither was I.

Um, nobody is, nothing is. You are born with a set of genes that determine all sorts of traits and abilities. And I wanna be really clear. That doesn't mean that you can't change behaviors just because there's a genetic component. There's a genetic component to every behavior, okay?

33:00 — Kati uses Fire Blazer's severe reactivity and hunting parentage to illustrate potential genetic limitations.

But it can create limitations in some cases. And I think a good example of that is Fire Blazer, who I've mentioned now a couple of times, who's here for a four-week board-and-train because of her severe reactivity. Um, like I said, she came from, uh, her father was a, a hunter, hunting dog, excuse me. And that's very evident, okay? She, anything that moves catches her attention and the ears come up and you can hear the hound in her gets going and she wants to chase and track down and, um, grab, absolutely. And so it is harder with her.

It's a lot harder. And where her ceiling is, we just don't know yet. We, and we won't know for a while, right? So we'll see how far we can take her in the four weeks and then if her family sticks with everything, it may keep getting better and better and better.

So it isn't something you change overnight, something you chip away at. However, some genetic behaviors are very easy to stop. Um, I've mentioned Gary Wilkes a few times on this show. If you don't follow him on social media, you should, um, you will learn stuff. <laugh> He trained his dog not to lift his leg when he urinated. Okay, guys, no one teaches dogs to lift their legs when they pee. That is a genetic, purely a genetic instinctual behavior. Um, but by catching them the first time they do it and punishing that behavior, he got rid of it.

His dog didn't do that anymore. So that's a a really good example. It was an easy one to come up with. Um, and he did that for his own reasons. Um, I think it had to do with being a service dog and going into the airport and having to pee inside and blah, blah, blah.

I don't know. But the point is that is absolutely 110% not a learned behavior. It's purely born of genetics. And he eliminated that behavior. So I wanna be very clear that just having a genetic component does not mean that you can't do anything about it, right? But I think we tend to look at one behavior and say, is this fixable or not? And the fact is that behavior and the neural connections that are happening that generate that behavior, they're tied to millions of other connections as well. The dog's ability to do this, the dog's ability to do that, the dog's ability to form inhibitions, to learn new things, to control arousal, how much dopamine, like all these things, right?

I'm just throwing stuff out there. But like, there's no way to know that. Like you can't just look at a dog and know that. Although I will say, um, at this point in my career and all the dogs I've dealt with, I can look at a dog even just in a picture and get a pretty good idea of kind of what we might be dealing with. It's not always a hundred percent accurate, but it's, it's pretty astounding, um, how accurate I can be. Sometimes just your brain starts to pick up on these patterns of physical traits and behavioral traits, which is really neat.

Um, and also, I mean, just meeting a dog and spending a few minutes with them, you start to get a feel for, again, the patterns and what kind of genetics and intensity we're dealing with and what we normally see come out of that.

37:00 — Kati encourages owners to try training because genetic limits cannot be fully predicted beforehand.

And so yeah, breed matters. Genetics matter and they can limit your success. But the fact is, you don't know how much they will limit your success until you try. And I'll say everybody should try, right? No matter what your dog's genetics are, you just don't know until you do it and you gotta give it some time, right? 'Cause you're chipping away, sometimes you're chipping away. It's not something they learn overnight. It's not like learning an obedience command. Learning to behave differently when your physical biology tells you to behave a certain way, that's hard. <laugh> That's hard to change, right?

But you'll, if you know how to do it, you'll have small wins and those wins will accumulate. And if you know how to use all the things we preach about structure and order and boundaries and all that stuff, you'll continue to chip away more and you just, you see how far you get.

But breed does matter. Genetics do matter, right? There's a reason that they're not using Pomeranians as bird hunters. And I'm not saying that they could never do it, right? But that would be very unusual. Most Pomeranians would not have that natural inclination and it would be difficult to teach. You see a prom Pomeranian out there pointing <laugh>, um, of course breed matters and people that wanna say pit bulls, you know, are nanny dogs and and never bite. And they're so sweet. That's a load of crap too. And all the pittie owners are gonna get mad at me.

Now my dog's 50% pittie, so don't get mad at me, right? And he's great. Um, but pit bulls, guys, were bred to be extremely aggressive, not toward people, toward dogs. But that doesn't mean it can't be directed on people, right? So all it takes is one dog who genetically feels inclined to do that or one dog that learns he can do that.

Or one dog that just gets triggered one day by a human. And all these behaviors that would normally be directed toward a dog get redirected, kind of like we were talking about earlier, onto the human instead. And next thing you know, it's attack and kill, right? Especially if there's more than one and they're in like pack mode. Um, so yeah, pitties can be wonderful. I've met many amazing pitties who are super, super sweet and great dogs. All I'm saying is breed does matter and genetics do matter and ignoring them won't help you. But using them as a crutch won't help you either, saying, well, there's no point in training the dog because they can't learn it.

40:00 — Kati revisits a Great Pyrenees owner who doubted recall training was possible and expected…

So the lady I talked to yesterday with the Great Pyrenees, she clearly, it sounded like she had no idea you could actually train them to come back when called. Um, she honestly told me she didn't expect much. She had pretty low standards. <laugh>.

I'm like, well, we're gonna blow your mind <laugh> because there's not a breed we can't teach to come back, guys. So dogs like Fire Blazer who have that intense drive, she might never be able to be off leash out in the wild, but it's not specifically because of her breed. Genetically, that behavior of locking on and chasing, we might not be able to fully inhibit that, right? Or we might be able to make a lot of progress and she does good most of the time, but then a different situation pops up where it just triggers it and nobody notices.

And that's when it would be too late. Too little, too late, right? And I don't know yet. I'm just sort of hypothesizing about what could happen and trying to explain like how genetics affect that and like we don't know. And it's like, well, how do you know? It's like, well, you do the training and you don't know. You, you find out over time as you see the dog in various situations and you see how they respond and you see how easy or difficult it is for them and then you start to get more comfortable or you start to get less comfortable and you go, this is a situation my dog can't handle, right?

You just don't know until till you do it. And you see, but breed and genetics absolutely play a role.

They just aren't the determining factor. Hey guys, thanks for joining us today. I really hope you enjoyed the show. If there's a specific topic you'd like to hear discussed, you can send that to me directly via email or fan mail. Just jump down into the show notes. That information will be there for you. I really look forward to hearing from you. Thanks for supporting the show and I look forward to next time.