Consultation Files—My Child And The Dog Hate Each Other

00:00 — Kati introduces Off Leash and Unfiltered and describes Diamond Canine’s focus on e-collar training.

Speaker 1: Welcome to Off Leash and Unfiltered Trigger Warning. I'm Kati Peppe, delivering the Truth in Dog Training.

Speaker 1: Hey, this is your host, Kati Peppe, owner of Diamond Canine Dog Training in Biddeford, Maine. For those of you that are new here, we specialize in e-collar training, so we help dogs listen off leash and around distractions. Or if your dog's being an absolute total jerk, well, we can help with that too. We do it all and we do puppy training too. This podcast is just my way of sharing. Well, everything with you guys, the good, the bad, the ugly. And I will always be honest about how to fix the problems you might be dealing with with your dog.

Speaker 1: So we're not your average super floofy dog training podcast. We are real and honest around here. What you can do is hit subscribe, hit subscribe so that you don't miss an episode, and so that you can help support the podcast. Every subscribe or follow helps us so, so, so much so I can keep putting out this content. We appreciate you, and without further ado, let's jump in. Welcome to our newest episode of Consultation Files. So I do these regularly, as you know, and honestly, in the beginning of my career, I didn't love doing the consultations.

Speaker 1: It wasn't my favorite thing in the world, uh, but now I actually think it's one of the funner parts of my job

Speaker 1: Now that I'm only doing them on the phone and they're not in person. I don't get to meet the people, which is kind of a drawback. So I like meeting new people and, and I like meeting them in person because I think you get, you get a better glimpse into who they are, what they're dealing with, what their lifestyle is like. Uh, and I mean, you can get all that on the phone, but it's not quite the same. But anyways, it's, it's one of my favorite parts of the job. You know, if there is ever a time where I am going to hear something I haven't heard before, it's probably gonna be in a consultation, <laugh>.

Speaker 1: Uh, but it's also an opportunity for me to tell people things that they haven't heard before, which is really, really common, right? 'cause a lot of the things I'm saying, you just don't hear a lot of people say, you don't hear a lot of trainers say this stuff, even.

Speaker 1: And so for a lot of folks, they're just really surprised to hear, hear me, say the things I do. And, and I enjoy all of that. I enjoy getting the experience of, you know, kind of meeting somebody new and also hearing what they're dealing with and seeing the common themes among both the dogs and the humans and getting to share things with them that will help them, that they haven't heard before. So, so it's a really cool, uh, cool experience. It, it's one of the funner parts of the job for me now at this point in my career.

Speaker 1: And, uh, obviously I, I pick and choose some of the ones that I think are more interesting or more common, uh, to share here on the podcast with you. And so, one of the more recent ones I did was with a lady who has a German Shepherd.

Speaker 1: Uh, she got a German Shepherd puppy. Puppy's starting to grow up now, but is still, uh, you know, not mature. So I, I can't remember if it was six months or nine months, I would have to look at my notes, but six to nine months old, and she also has a 4-year-old son in the house. And you know, it's funny because I know I've said this before on one of my puppy episodes, but it's been a long time, so we're overdue to have this conversation. Again, puppies and kids don't mix, man, <laugh>, they, they really don't.

04:00 — The case involves a six-to-nine-month-old puppy and a four-year-old child living in the same…

Speaker 1: And so this consultation that I'm, I'm gonna tell you about really, really illustrates that, uh, in a real world, real world setting. So I, you know, I say that, but it's true, it's puppies and kids don't mix. So we have this idea in our head that we're gonna bring home a puppy and our kids are gonna love it, and they're gonna be best friends and everything's gonna go swimmingly.

Speaker 1: And that's just usually not the case, right? It doesn't always go terribly, like that's not what I'm saying, but it's not always sunshine and roses. And I would say it's usually not. Like there are usually some problems. And the more freedom you give your puppy, the worse that's probably gonna be. And also dependent on your puppy's personality, you know, the more forward they are pushy they are, or even the more nervous and anxious they are, obviously the more problems there will be. And also how well behaved your children are. So kids will be kids, and four is young, but you know, some kids follow rules and instructions better than others.

Speaker 1: So these are all factors that are gonna play a role in how well they mesh. So we might be, we might be overdue to just do an episode on puppies and kids, and so I'm gonna put that on my list to consider. But, so this person has a German shepherd, and it sounds like not only, or their issues with the dog meshing with the child in the home, but also with the other dog too. So I think it's important not to just look at a dog or you know, your puppy if you have a new puppy or whatever, and just classify it as good or bad and think if it's good, everything will be good.

Speaker 1: And if it's bad, everything will be bad because <laugh>, it's really just not that black and white.

Speaker 1: So in fact, sometimes if you have a dog that's a little too meek, a little too unsure, a little too anxious, that can actually bother the other dogs in the household. Um, dogs don't like that. They don't like that unstable energy, they don't like that uncertainty. You know, they're, they say, what the hell is wrong with you? Let me help you out. Right? Bite <laugh>, stop pacing, stop whining, stop being an idiot. So that can actually, and that can be confusing to people, but that can actually cause uh, some instability among, you know, the, the dogs in the house because they don't, they don't like that

Speaker 2: They,

Speaker 1: They don't like that energy or the opposite energy, right? So I don't necessarily wanna say opposite, but dogs that are more confident and pushy and kind of in your face and taking over everything. Uh, dogs that go from zero to a hundred with their arousal, these are all things that can bother other dogs, right? It's not necessarily about the dogs don't like each other, or the dogs are fighting. I mean, even if they are fighting, we try to kind of humanize it. And sometimes it's like the energy is just upsetting, it's triggering to the other dog.

08:00 — Unstable, whiny, uncertain energy from one dog can unsettle and trigger the other dogs.

Speaker 1: They don't like the general behavior, they don't like the attitude, they don't like the energy of the other dog and it's unsettling. But anyway, so I think they have a little bit of that going on. And you know, the problem with the child is the dog wants to be around the child, and the dog has also learned to be kind of pushy and use his mouth to get attention. So, I mean, you can see where that's going. Dog gets up on the couch next to the child,

Speaker 1: Child is watching tv, dog wants attention. Dog's walking on child mouthing, child maybe barking at child. I don't know, I don't, I don't remember her specifically saying that, but these are the types of behaviors. Um, definitely using the mouth though was, was on that list. And so the thing is, even when the dog doesn't do those things, the child anticipates it now. And so when the dog comes around, kid starts hitting the dog, pushing the dog away, child gets upset that the dog is around. And so it's really, their relationship now is just characterized by, uh, conflict.

Speaker 1: No good, right? Everybody wants their dog and their kid to get along and like I said, to be best friends. And unfortunately, we see this not just with kids and puppies, but with grown dogs and adults, oftentimes we sabotage our relationship with them by trying to force a friendship, by trying to force this lovey-dovey relationship on the animal too soon instead of being for them what any child or teenager needs, which is a structure firm boundaries, clarity, right?

Speaker 1: We don't wanna do that with our puppy. We wanna just love them and coddle them and cozy them up. And <laugh> be all soft and fuzzy. And, and sometimes that actually sabotages sabotages our relationship. And, and I see it a lot with kids. We try to force the relationship between the kid and the dog. Again, we just kind of have this idea, this fantasy in our head that they're gonna get along and we just throw them together and we expect them to get along. And I mean, puppies are hell a lot of the time, not always, but a lot of puppies are not super easy and fun to get along with.

Speaker 1: So how is your 4-year-old supposed to navigate that? I mean, I wouldn't expect that to pan out very well. And so the way we always tell people to do it when they have dogs and when, when they have kids and they're bringing a puppy home is control everything.

Speaker 1: Don't assume the best. Don't have this fantasy in your head control everything. And of course we recommend a super high level of structure anyway for puppies when they come home. So we don't want your puppy just running around learning all kinds of bad habits and thinking they run the show and they own the house. It's just not, it's not great, but especially if you have children. So tons of structure. So my conversation with this person, um, because you know, she wants her dogs, first of all to get along and she wants, you know, her dogs to get along with the child and she wants to know everybody is safe and on, on track to become, uh, you know, balanced and confident and get along.

Speaker 1: And my recommendation would absolutely be to do our training program. Um, and what we would do with that, you know, puppy's still young, but old enough to have some firm boundaries and some accountability.

12:00 — Kati recommends basic-command training, accountability, crate time, and greater household structure for the puppy.

Speaker 1: So teaching puppy all their basic commands and then accountability for those basic commands, implementing a much higher level of structure in the house. So using crate time a lot, using the place, caught a lot. And instead of, you know, having this idea in our head that our dog is getting exercised by being outta their kennel, which is baloney, taking the dog out for proper exercise, a long walk, running around, chasing the ball, going swimming, probably not swimming now 'cause it's November and Maine <laugh> though yesterday was pretty warm. Um, but structure, structure, structure and controlling everything.

Speaker 1: Gates, crates, leashes, that's our mantra with puppies. Um, crate time, crate time, crate time, place time, place time, place time. Once your puppy has a good place command so your puppy doesn't need to be free roaming around, right? And now once we have that right, we have a way for child and puppy to now spend time together without the puppy being free to crash into the child's space, disrespecting the child, climbing all over the child, hurting the child, being pushy with the child, none of that.

Speaker 1: And the child gets to experience a more positive way of being with the dog where the dog is around but not bothering him, right? 'cause we can put the dog on place, the child can be on the couch and they can watch TV together. The child can read to the dog maybe, um, or child can even be playing, running around doing, you know, somersaults in the living room and dog stays on place and watches, which is gonna be a whole new experience for kiddo, right? So now they get to build something and start having, you know, one day at a time, one hour at a time, one day at a time, one week at a time, building something a little bit different.

Speaker 1: And no, it's not best friends walking off into the sunset together. It's, we're gonna share space and things are gonna be controlled and there's gonna be rules for both kid.

Speaker 1: And, and so that's important to mention. Uh, but now it gives them a chance, like I said to one day at a time, one week at a time, build something where there's no harassment, <laugh>, there's no injuries, there's no wounds, there's no crying, there's no hitting. It's a very neutral way of sharing space together. So there we have a shot at everybody getting along, right? But if you keep harping on this idea of them being best buddies, and I'm not saying that the owner did this at all 'cause I did not pick up on that from her.

Speaker 1: Um, but that's really common. If you make that your goal and you try to force that, it's going to bite you in the butt. So if you do things this way where dog has rules, child has rules, they can share space neutrally and they can interact with parental supervision

Speaker 2: And

Speaker 1: Probably at first with a leash on the dog. Unless you feel very comfortable that you have full control. If you've done an eco program and you feel very comfortable and confident in your ability to control things that way, that's great. Then child can interact physically with the dog, assuming the dog is comfortable with it, right? And this, this dog in this case is, uh, yeah, but that's supervised, right? And then from there, now we have a good foundation for a, a good relationship between the two organically developing, right? And as your dog matures and you're doing this training and you're enforcing these boundaries every day and they become a more stable, respectful, trustworthy member of the household, and you can start giving them a little bit of freedom,

16:00 — Consistent rules and supervision allow a respectful relationship to develop organically as the dog…

Speaker 1: You're gonna see a lot of that animosity, a lot of that conflict that was there, start to melt away and hopefully something better start to replace it. Love the podcast. Well, I have great news. We are now offering an inexpensive subscription where you can get access to our new premium content. This content isn't available to our general listeners, it's made just for you. It includes all kinds of behind the scenes stuff, all the obstacles and how we're overcoming them with our board and trained dogs. And the most difficult part of our job, how we deal with overcoming obstacles with our clients.

Speaker 1: So all kinds of new cool, interesting stuff for you to get out of those episodes. You can jump down into the show notes and there will be a link to our support page where you can sign up and start listening right away. Thanks for your support, enjoy the rest of the show, right? Child can participate and play with the dog, with the adult like throwing the ball, right? And you can teach the dog to drop the ball

Speaker 1: And then you can hold the dog accountable for dropping the ball. And then you can have the child ask the dog to drop the ball and you can still hold the dog accountable if they don't, right? So if you have your child giving commands and you are backing them up, dog doesn't know that that accountability is coming from you necessarily. So now you start to garner a little more respect for the child. Same thing if the child has a sandwich in their hand, right? If the dog is too close to the sandwich or eyeballing it, you can teach the child to say no and then you the adult follow up after the child's no with a correction.

Speaker 1: And suddenly dog goes, oh, child sets rules and boundaries and deserves respect, right? But of course the, it has to go both ways guys. So a lot of people are good at setting rules for their dog and not for their child, right? There has to be rules for the child too. So you're not allowed to go get in the dog's face. You're not allowed to feed or touch the dog. When parents aren't present, you're not allowed to hit the dog, obviously. Pull the dog's tail climb all over the dog. A lot of people think that their dog just loves it when their kid climbs all over them.

Speaker 1: Even if they do, don't do that,

Speaker 1: Don't do that. It's an accident waiting to happen. Don't do that. I hate seeing that, especially since a lot of the dogs that aren't comfortable with it, it's not obvious to folks, right? I can see it. Someone who's worked with hundreds and hundreds of dogs can see it. But a lot of pet owners, they don't see it. They don't see the discomfort, they don't see the hard eyes, they don't see the stiffness, they don't see the looking away where the dog is saying, I don't like this. And then when the dog snaps, it's, oh, he turned, he suddenly snapped.

Speaker 1: No <laugh>, no, we were just letting the child climb all over the dog. The dog never liked it, dog finally got tired of it and did something about it. And I am not saying it's okay for your dog to snap at your child, but that was bound to happen because we didn't set good enough boundaries. Rules have to go both ways. And so assuming she signs up, that's exactly what we're gonna do. And I think the interesting thing here to mention is Elvis, no, so Elvis can hear me, podcasting, he's down here on place and he started, started doing his stress wine.

20:00 — Allowing children to climb on dogs or pull tails can eventually provoke a predictable…

Speaker 1: So when people are talking and he has to be still, he starts to get super anxious and whiny

Speaker 1: Have to keep his remote right here next to me so I can just give him a tap if he give stuck in that whiny state. An interesting piece of this that I, I don't think I've ever really talked about or articulated before, is a training program isn't just training for the dog, of course, right? And, and I do talk about that. I talk about how important it's to train the human as well. Because no matter how well we train the dog to behave here, to behave with me, to behave at my house, to behave for Joyce, there's nothing we can do to make the dog behave for somebody else.

Speaker 1: We can teach the dog how to do it, all right? But once they're gone, we can't make them do it. That has to come from their humans, right? Their handlers, their owners, their family. And so we do that training, but it's even more than that. So when someone comes to pick up their dog or do private lessons, either way, there has to be really great communication about how to actually implement all the things they're gonna learn, all the things the dog has learned and all the things the humans have learned. How do they go home and implement that in a way that actually fixes their problem,

Speaker 1: Assuming that they had a problem, right? Because not everybody does. We get a lot of dogs that are just pretty good, well-behaved dogs and the owners just want off-leash reliability or something like that. But assuming that there's something they're struggling with, not everyone knows how to take the training and go home and make that fix their problem. And we always say commands, don't fix your problem, right? So like I just described this dog being an issue with the child, it's like place doesn't fix that. It sure as hell can help and they're gonna use it a ton, right?

Speaker 1: The way you leverage the commands matters. You absolutely can use the commands to help. They just don't fix the problem. And so in a case like this, most of the time it's the dogs acting like a nut and needs to be corrected. And there's probably some of that here for sure. But there's so many layers to it. Like they need to reduce the freedom of that dog, right? Dog can't just have the run of the house and go wherever it wants. Maybe dog needs more exercise too, and maybe need, uh, clearly needs more boundaries and rules like maybe no furniture privileges right now, right?

Speaker 1: That's like those are earned and the dog's still really young and figuring things out and what their role is and what's gonna be accepted. And you know, who's gonna be a pushover and who isn't? It's like for now, maybe no couch time, right? Maybe child gets couch time and dog doesn't. So we can set a really clear expectation of,

Speaker 1: You know, child is human, which is up here, and your dog, which is down here, <laugh>. So if you could see me, I'm kinda illustrating that with my hands, right? There's a, there's a hierarchy and there dog is at the bottom. Um, and that's not to be mean or a bully, but the way dogs sort things out isn't pretty. You don't want them doing that with your child. You don't want them to think they can do that with your child. You don't want them to treat your child like a dog. That's not gonna be pretty <laugh>, right?

Speaker 1: So, but so many layers, um, boundaries for the dogs, boundaries for the child, these are all things we're gonna talk about in a lesson and be really, really clear about what that looks like. What does that mean? How do you do that when you leave our building and you get in your car and you go home and you walk through your door? What exactly do you do? So we really like to break that down and spell it out for people because we find that even people who are totally on board with everything we say and everything we show them, they still don't have a really clear picture in their head of how to do it.

Speaker 1: And so they'll go home and they mean to implement it and they try to implement it, but they really don't. At least not fully because we didn't do a good enough job communicating clearly and precisely about what exactly everything means. And that's so important. And I think that's really what sets our training program apart is because we do break it down into all these different layers. We teach the dog, we teach the human, we talk to the human about exactly how to implement everything we've shown them, spell it out, break it down exactly what it should look like when you get home and you go to take that leash off what you should be doing.

Speaker 1: Um, and not that everyone has the same plan when they go home. Not that it's as important for everybody. Like everyone's different. Every case is different, but it's just important for people to understand how to implement all this stuff we showed everybody and taught everybody to actually fix their problems. 'cause otherwise what good is any of it? Right? What good is any of it? And we get a lot of dogs that don't have any real problems,

Speaker 1: Right? But a lot of folks do. A lot of folks are struggling with something at home and the investment they make, it's not, they're not going to get their money's worth. They're not, you know, they put in the time, they put in the money, they put in the effort and then they'll go home and still not really fix the thing they wanted to fix because maybe they just don't know how to use the training in a way that does that. So we always say, maybe I already said this, I can't remember, but I, we always say commands, don't fix your problems, but you can definitely leverage them in a way that helps.

Speaker 1: So we do that and we have to teach other people how to do that. And then we need to teach people, Hey, when your dog's not in a command, this is what it should look like. This is what you should be addressing and this is how you address it. And if you don't do those things, then you're gonna be babysitting your dog, managing your dog, and relying on commands forever. So again, layers, there's so many layers to it,

Speaker 1: But that's one of our favorite pieces is teaching people how to do that. So I'm hoping she signs up. I think this would be life changing for them. I see this as being a very, very saveable situation at the moment, but it's a real fork in the road because it's like right now nothing major has really happened. Um, and the dog is still young and the child's still young, uh, and the relationship is still young 'cause they haven't had the dog that long. Um, and with some good training and good clarity, <laugh> communication, right? Good clarity on their part about exactly how to go home and implement everything.

Speaker 1: Uh, with the structure, with the obedience training, with the rules and boundaries for both the dog and the child and exactly what that looks like when they walk into their house. Um, they could potentially be in a fantastic place a month from now where things are great and the dog and the child are getting on swimmingly and starting to develop a, a better relationship, right? But if they don't do training, and it doesn't necessarily have to be with me, right? But with somebody who knows how to do all of these things,

Speaker 1: Then in a year from now when dog is coming into maturity, this could potentially be a really ugly situation. Somebody could be hurt. Um, right? That's probably worst case scenario, but you could definitely see this going there.

Speaker 1: So, um, yeah, but at the moment, totally saveable situation. Hope they do sign up, uh, would love to help these folks. And it, you know, it sounds like a good dog too. It doesn't sound like a bad dog. It sounds like a German shepherd just doing what dogs do, which is doing what comes naturally <laugh>. And again, they tend to be more on the anxious side of the spectrum and sort of a little frantic. So they're just doing whatever comes naturally reflexively to that lizard brain. And you don't want your German Shepherd treating your child like a sibling, like another dog.

Speaker 1: The way dogs iron things out. It's not pretty, you know? And if you don't like the way they're trying to iron it out now or get what they want now at six months old, wait until you see them at 12 or 18 months old, right? Because usually what we see is these things get worse. Um, as the dog comes into maturity, we see a full expression of all these genes that are in there and, uh, it could potentially be a real mess. Nobody wants that. So <laugh>, let's hope they get, uh, they get the training they need, would be really, really happy to help these folks.

Speaker 1: Uh, again, it's our favorite thing to do is helping people implement change and empower people to live the life they want with their dogs. So could see this being life changing for these folks.

Speaker 1: Look forward to the kids and puppy episode because that is definitely on my list now, <laugh>, thanks for listening guys. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. If there's a topic you'd like to hear discussed, you can send that to me directly at Kati at Diamond Canine dot com via email. So I will link to that email address in the show notes. Thanks for joining us today, guys. Thanks for supporting the podcast and I look forward to the next one.