Consultation Files: “Things Are So Bad, I Don’t Know If There’s Hope”

00:00 — Kati introduces a consultation about how escalating dog behavior can damage the owner-dog relationship.

We have a really interesting consultation files for you guys today. Everybody talks about how their behavior impacts their relationship with their dog or how it can, and, but how does your dog's behavior impact your relationship? What do you do when things are spiraling outta control? How do you know if it's you or the dog? And how do you know if the right thing to do is to rehome the dog? All this and more today. Thanks so much for joining me. Welcome to Off Leash and Unfiltered Trigger Warning. I'm Kati Peppe, delivering the Truth in Dog Training.

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of Off-Leash and Unfiltered. I am Kati peppy, owner of Diamond Canine Dog training in Biddeford, Maine, specializing in eco training, both for off-leash obedience and behavior modification. So helping people stop all those unwanted behaviors, uh, leash pulling, barking, getting into the trash, jumping up on people and more serious stuff like the serious reactivity, you know, the leash reactivity, aggression, resource guarding, separation anxiety, all that stuff. Uh, we also do puppy training. So that's who we are and what we do. And this podcast is just our way of sharing everything that we see and learn and talk about and do day in and day out with you guys.

This information is often very, very hard to find. So I think we share a lot of interesting stuff, um, that is difficult to find elsewhere. And so that's what we're doing.

And if you can't tell, I have a little extra Peppe in my step today, <laugh>, uh, I think that's because I've been drinking water <laugh>. So for those of you that know me personally, you may know, um, that I am a soda fanatic. Um, recently switched to diet soda and you know, it's interesting things to hate diet soda. And now I don't think I could go back to regular. Um, it's too sweet. So, but I drink, I drink a lot of diet soda and when I drink more water, I feel better, but I will never admit that to either my husband or my doctor.

So it's <laugh>, it's just between you and me. Um, but anyways, let's, let's dig into it. Today we have a really great consultation files for you guys. Um, I took this phone call just last week. Of course, when this airs it will be longer ago because, um, I don't think this one will be on the, this one won't be published for, I don't know, two or three weeks. So, but I, I had this call with this really nice lady who lives locally or not too far away, and she had an interesting case because she has an Icelandic sheep dog, which we don't get a ton of.

03:00 — The case involves an Icelandic Sheepdog whose working-breed traits conflict with life as a…

Uh, you don't meet Icelandic sheep dogs every day around here. So I thought that was interesting.

So the first thing that's obviously noteworthy about that is this is a working breed of dog, right? Which doesn't necessarily mean anything because all dogs are individuals, but oftentimes we see dogs that have a lot of drive, um, and a strong working nature, not do great in average pet homes, especially homes where, um, the people are either sedentary, and I'm not saying she was, I don't think she was, or, um, they're just not giving the dog proper work, right? Even if they're giving the dog exercise, they're not getting proper work, which is different. So maybe we'll dig into that a little bit.

And sometimes it can feel kind of when you have one of these dogs, like you're trying to fit a square hole into a round peg because, or <laugh>, I said that backwards a square peg into a round hole, right? Because you are sometimes you're trying to cram the dog into a box that they don't necessarily fit well in, or that they at least don't fit well into naturally.

And you need to know how to intervene to change that and change your outcome. And it can be really, really frustrating and it can be a real struggle, and it's just not that uncommon. We see it, we see it a lot. We see a lot of like hunting dogs, um, fall into that bucket, right? So people will buy hunting dogs from breeders that are, are breeding strong working line dogs. And then, you know, if it's a person who's not of real strong moral fabric, they will sell the dogs to people who don't have any intention of even using them for hunting and then to boot.

They're just a family that wanted a pet dog and the particular dog turns out to be, um, aggressive and strong-willed and independent. And it's just not at all what most families are looking for in a dog <laugh>. So it's not an uncommon story. Uh, we run into that quite a bit. Um, and it's not always that way. Just because you have a working dog doesn't mean they can't be a pet. Like, that's not what I'm saying. Um, but we just see a lot of dogs that were bred for a lot of traits in genes that are not desirable to most families.

Um, and sometimes those genes and traits are bred in intentionally, and sometimes it's unintentional, but nonetheless they are there and it just makes it really difficult for everybody to cohabitate, um, nevermind flourish together, which is what we would like to see for people and their pet dogs, obviously.

So, and I believe in this particular case, um, the breeder lives very close by and this woman actually has friends that has gotten dogs from this breeder before and their life's going just peachy, right? So this could very well just be a case of this individual dog is just wired this way. Um, but there's also a lot of environmental factors. I mean, that was very clear from the phone call, so we're gonna dig into that as well, right? Because there's always a genetic component, like your dog is who they are, but also you are who you are and the way you live is the way you live.

And sometimes these three things they just create, it's like a recipe for disaster. And I think that's honestly kind of what we had going on here. So I sit down to chat with this person on the phone, and usually the way I like to do my consultations is I'll let the person unpack a little bit first about what they have going on, right?

Because sure, I can tell 'em about my programs and stuff, but I can't really pick out the, the elements of it that are gonna be important for you. Um, until I know a little bit about your dog and what you're dealing with. I also don't know what approach to take until I know what we're dealing with. Meaning, um, knowing what you're dealing with, I can better customize our conversation to revolve around, Hey, these things are gonna be really important for you. Those things are gonna be really important for you. Um, and things of that nature.

I also get a feel by talking to the person and letting them unpack a little bit. I get a feel for how they're feeling about things, what their philosophies are, what they are and aren't comfortable with, which then tells me, Hey, these might be areas we need to hone in on.

Um, because if you are not fully on board and committed to the program and doing the protocols we cover with you, then you are not gonna be as successful as you could be and you might just utterly fail, right? <laugh>. So it's usually helpful to me to just let people unpack first. So she starts telling me a little bit about what she has going on with her dog, and I can't remember how old the dog was, but it wasn't very, it was under a year old, I wanna say nine or 10 months old. And she was dealing with a lot of barking, which went on the entire time we were on the phone, uh, loud, repetitive, frequent, kind of shrill barks.

08:00 — The young dog’s owner begins describing a rapidly worsening situation at home.

And I guess she lives on a lake and people all the way on the other side of the lake can hear this just echoing over there.

And she's getting complaints, of course, um, because nobody wants to listen to that. Um, and I would wanna listen to that, having that in my house. I can't imagine how stressful that would be. Just that constant barking and chewing. The dog has chewed most of her furniture, chewed all of her chair legs is always chewing, always has to have something in the the mouth, which is both dangerous to the dog potentially if they swallow something. And is also obviously very frustrating as an owner, um, because nobody wants to have their furniture, their clothes and their things that they've spent money on that they've worked hard for to be destroyed by the dog.

Uh, jumping the dog jumped all over her, all of her guests jumps all over her grandkids, uh, which are mostly pre-teen age and also when the dog's jumping will nip. So it's one of those cases where dog's super over aroused, overstimulated, very mouthy, which might have a genetic component to it, um, because it is a hurting type dog, but neither here nor there, right?

We're not supposed to be hurting kids or, or anybody. We're certainly not supposed to be nipping people. And so if you don't tell the dog that, then, then you might get some of that. And that's what's happening here. But also I think there's just kind of a pushy element to it, which again, the dog probably genetically kind of designed to be a little bit pushy, a little bit independent, do its own thing, right? And instead of being a working dog, hurting and pushing around livestock, it's pushing around people being pushy with people, um, pulling on the leash.

She can't take it for a walk because it pulls constantly. And will also has gotten very good at turning around and slipping its collar, uh, which of course the tighter collar could probably remedy that, but I haven't met them. I didn't see anything, uh, with my own eyes, so I don't know what their setup is.

Um, but that's obviously super, super dangerous and really stressful. That's not an enjoyable walk, that's for sure. She can't get the dog in a crate, right? So when we talk about like, oh, dog, chew your furniture, well, maybe you should put it in a crate at least when you're not watching or you're not home, dog should be in a kennel, but she can't get the dog in a kennel because he won't go in and he will try to bite her. Um, if she tries to force him to go in. And of course, once he's in there, I'm sure he would do nothing but bark, just guessing, <laugh>.

Um, but behavior with the grandkids is really concerning because they're not, you know, they're not really little, but they're not very old either, and they shouldn't really have to contend with that. And so they come over to grandma's house and the dog is jumping all over them and nipping at their clothes.

And it sounds like they're pretty confident kids who are pretty good at like, turning their back and ignoring the dog. But as consequences go, that's not very much, right? So it's not, that's not doing anything to stop the behavior. Um, it may be deescalating it somewhat while the dog, right? Because most dogs, they get super excited and then they'll calm down at some point. And so that probably buys them a little bit of time while the dog comes down from all that arousal, um, and then maybe behaves a little bit better, but, uh, it's not doing anything to stop it long term.

So this is a little routine that they have to go through all the time. And, uh, it's dangerous because although the dog has not broken their skin yet, he has broken skin before on his owner. And, uh, it's really only a matter of time.

You know? And I'm sure, you know, they don't wanna get their clothing ripped and things like that. So as she's going on talking about this stuff, it's just a dog that is completely spiraling out of control. Um, and I'm thinking to myself, and of course she's, you know, sobbing off and on the whole time that we're on the phone because it's, it is a super stressful situation, right? So, and I, I believe she lives alone and if I remember correctly, and so she got this puppy right as her companion, um, someone to keep her company and someone that she can take places.

12:00 — Kati hears a dog living completely out of control while the owner sobs through…

And apparently she likes to go for walks and hikes and wanted a dog that would be able to keep up and go with her and do these things. And, um, it's just turned out to be constant stress. It's like nearly every minute of every day the dog is doing something upsetting.

And if she tries to do anything about it, then she gets into a personal battle with the dog and there's, you know, potentially teeth and, and, um, the dog trying to get away, slipping its collar. She can't do anything with the dog that she had originally planned on doing the stuff that she had hoped to do. That's a pipe dream that's not happening. So I hear all this and I'm thinking, wow, like this dog is completely out of control. Um, and I can see it. So as the people are unpacking all this stuff, it's painting a very nice picture for me, and I'm picking up on all the subtleties in their language and the scenarios they're describing.

Um, and this is a dog that views humans as Pez dispensers and doormats, right? So he has just learned that people don't set boundaries, they don't set rules, they don't enforce them.

Um, if anything, it's food, right? Treats love. The worst thing they've done is turned their back on the dog. And I'm not picking on them, um, because this is all they're doing the best they can with what they have. This is all they know to do. Um, and the woman has tried providing negative consequences in the form of a water bottle, but of course, her dog thought this was great fun, uh, and had a good time with it. And so it really, I mean, functioned more as a reward than anything. And that's not uncommon either, because of course a lot of dogs like playing in water.

So PEs dispensers and doormats, and, you know, the consequences have been extremely mild, uh, to none really. And so the dog, this frame of mind has just blossomed where he can run around, right? He's fully autonomous, fully self-governing, does whatever he wants, follows every impulse he has, um, pushes people around, jumps on them, nips at them, barks at them, and just is generally really, really ill behaved all the time.

And also, I'm not picking on the dog. So the dog is just doing what comes naturally, right? And that looks different for every dog. Um, but so if you've ever had a dog <laugh> like this, or similar in the sense that you just felt like there was a lot of stress, right? Like your whole life kind of had to revolve around the dog, then, you know, right? You cry yourself to sleep at night because you get this puppy and you envision <laugh> this life, right? You have like this little fairytale in your head, like how great things are gonna be and all the puppy snuggles and going on walks together and car rides together.

And, um, you end up in a situation where you can't do anything with the dog. And even when you're home, they're ruining your life. And no one wants to say that out loud, but the fact is, it just is.

And you, you cannot properly bond with a dog who's doing this stuff. You just can't. Like, it will abs. If you will allow your dog to do this, it will absolutely negatively impact your relationship. Of course it will. I know because I have been there. So I had a dog like that, but worse, wasn't barking all the time, but was a dangerous dog. Um, and it was of course, the dog that got me into dog training, and I got her as a puppy, and I had all these high hopes and dreams, and that slapped me right in the face reality did.

Um, because she was a terrible dog, <laugh>, if I am to just be honest. And, uh, it was really, really hard and it was dangerous. And I had a young child, and it was a real problem. And it is extremely stressful because you feel like you're doing everything right and you're not.

But the fact is, even if you do, it might not work out. It might be the square peg in a round hole scenario. So this is straining their relationship immensely. Um, and it could be so much better, most likely with proper training. But this is a dog that sees everyone as Pez dispensers, doormats. There's no consequences. And the dog has no coping skills, none at all, and is really uncomfortable, obviously, all the time, right? This is a dog that you picture and they're just frantic all the time, right? Barking, chewing, jumping, nipping, just frantic outta their mind.

17:00 — Without consequences, the dog treats people as Pez dispensers and has no coping skills…

That's not comfortable for the dog either, right? So allowing this to continue is not just insane because it's ruining her life, but this dog is not comfortable. He's, yeah, he's doing what comes naturally, right? You could say what makes 'em happy, but dogs aren't big on self-help.

So they don't know when they're nuts. They don't, right? They, they're not aware in the way that we are, that like, they're full of tension, they're full of anxiety, they're full of stress all the time. Um, they don't know how to shut off. They don't know how to be calm. They don't know how to stop alerting on every single tiny little thing because no one's made them, and they're not gonna do it on their own. So they're never going to get to experience what it's like to just be okay being still, to just be calm, to just shut off, to just not worry about it.

To see someone walk in and not feel like it's their job to go assess the threat or push them around or hurt them or whatever it is they're doing. Um, and so it's not kind to leave things the way that they are.

So part of this is probably genetic, right? It could be that these are just traits of these dogs that she breeds. Or even if it's not, it could just be this one dog popped out this way, this is who he is, right? This is what comes naturally to this dog. Um, and so there's almost certainly, well, there is certainly an element of that. And then there's the environment the dog is living in and what it's like, especially from the early days, right? When you first get the puppy, they're eight weeks, 10 weeks old, puppy starts learning right away.

Um, what is my relationship with these people gonna be like, what is living here gonna be like? What are the boundaries? What happens? What are the consequences? Um, what is expected? Do I just walk around and follow every impulse and go crazy? And in this case, obviously, yes, um, that is the case.

And he is learned that nobody sets real boundaries or rules. There's no expectations. And the thing is, even if you think you have rules, right? And I'm sure she did, and she described a lot of situations where like, there are things that she doesn't allow, but the problem is they're still happening, right? So people think they're setting rules, but here's the thing, if you are not providing a consequence that changes the dog's behavior, then you don't have rules. You think you have rules, right? But from the dog's perspective, and, and that was what we talked about, that was our conversation.

20:00 — A rule without a consequence that changes behavior is not a real rule from…

It's like, look, I like the way you think, right? I like that you have standards for your dog, right? I'm not saying to you that you don't have standards for your dog or that you don't have rules, but from his perspective, you don't because they're not being meaningfully enforced. And we know that just because the behavior is continuing the way that it is.

And I definitely think in a case like this, like if, if you're struggling with your dog, you really need to pause, right? You need to take a step back and you need to look at the situation and you need to say, how bad is it? Because it's easy to forget. So this dog's not even that old, so this hasn't been going on that long, right? But over the course of six, seven months, she's come to realize that something needs to change. But that's mostly only because people are complaining, right? So this gradually develops a little bit more every day, every day, and people just kind of get sucked into the jet stream, right?

We're just going with the flow and things get progressively worse. And before you know it, the dog's taking over your entire life. And you have forgotten what life was like before the dog, where you didn't have to worry about any of this stuff, right? And I'm not saying it was a mistake to get a dog, like you want a dog, get a dog, but you, you don't always know what you're getting when you get a dog. And so you get one and you do your thing, and sometimes it goes right off the rails, and we don't necessarily know it because frankly, we're so busy trying to keep things under control that we don't even have time to think about it.

Um, but it's not normal for you to have to think so hard about whether or not you should take your dog on a walk or even to a public place, right? If you have to think that hard about it, if you're worried about it, that indicates you've got something you need to pay attention to, right? So I'm not saying don't think about it at all. Like everyone might say, you know what? I don't feel like bringing the dog. I don't wanna have to police the dog. I just don't wanna have to pay attention. I just wanna relax.

That's fine, right? But if you're like, I don't know, how's it gonna go? How bad's it gonna be? You know, what's the worst tragedy that can happen if you have to play through this? In your mind, that's not normal, that's not healthy. It's, there's a problem <laugh>, and you need to fix it.

But so how do you fix it, right? If you're in this situation where things have already gone south like this, what do you do? Especially when you feel like you're doing everything you can do? Um, my feeling listening to this was that things could be a million times better for this person and this dog, um, through proper training. So, but it's not gonna be easy in the sense that the training isn't just obedience training, right? So if you've listened to my other material, you know that I always say obedience commands, don't fix your problems. They sure as hell help.

Like we, if you use them the right way, and we're gonna do all that, but the lifestyle has to change, at least for a little while. So, because like we already discussed this dog's whole view now of the world is that they're just the king and they just run everybody right over because he can, right?

24:00 — The proposed reset uses crate, place, and leash structure alongside teaching and consistent follow-through.

And so that lifestyle, it has got to change. Um, so usually what we're gonna recommend, and this is what we were talking about in the call, is lots of structure right off the bat, tons of structure, right? So your dog is gonna go in the crate and they are gonna learn a place command, and they are gonna have to stay there, and they are gonna be on a leash, right? There's not gonna be freedom, there's not gonna be full autonomy, there's not gonna be independence. There's gonna be, you are gonna go where I ask you to go, you're gonna do the things I ask you to do.

Um, you're gonna walk nicely when we go outside and there's gonna be follow through, and there's gonna be consequences for non-compliance, right? So first we have to go through teaching the dog all this stuff, right? Because we can't just provide consequences for doing behaviors that the dog just doesn't really know how to do.

Of course. And so my recommendation is usually a board and train for people that have all of this crazy, crazy stuff going on with their dog. And so we can take them and we can teach them all of these lovely things and all these new behaviors, and we can address bad behaviors as well. But then of course, when the dog goes home, this is the stuff the owner's gonna have to do right now, the dog has all these new skills, they've learned how we want them to behave around people, but now they need to go home and the owner needs to implement and execute this and needs to have the same expectations, right?

So like, she can't even get her dog in a kennel. So like private lessons is gonna be very hard for this person because the dog is so pushy and so snotty and just very reactive and mouthy and all these things.

Uh, and it's extremely stressful for her, of course, because she loves this dog and had high hopes. And, and this is just, it's awful. And so this person, I thought, as most people are, we're gonna have better success doing a board and train program where we lay that whole foundation and get the dog started on all these new skills, and then we have to pass it over to her, right? But then when the dog goes home, lots of structure, lots of crate time, lots of place time, right? Dog's on a leash, dog's not just running around free.

And so it's like, if you don't wanna do that, then yeah, you should rehome your dog, you know? But the other thing you wanna think about is nobody wants this dog who, right? If you actually went on Facebook and posted an ad for this dog, and you listed all the stuff I just talked about, who's gonna want that dog?

Now nobody does that, right? They show a picture of the dog, talk about how cute the dog is, and how they love to cuddle, and then they leave all this other stuff out, right? Or they put in a, they put in a, a disclaimer like, just needs a little training. I don't have time. Something like that, right? And I'm not accusing this lady of doing that at all, um, because I don't know that she's even going to rehome her dog, but I'm just saying that's a common scenario, right? And then someone else ends up picking up this dog and having the same problem.

27:00 — Rehoming without full disclosure risks giving another family the same serious problems.

Nobody, nobody, nobody, nobody wants a dog like this. Nobody.

And that's why I strongly feel, um, unless you're dealing with a dog that is too dangerous to be in your home, that if you have the means to train the dog, you do it right? But everyone's in a different place mentally and in a different spot on their own personal journey, right? So not everybody wants to do this. So it's, I'm, that's why I'm very, very clear in our consultations, like, this is what the expectation is gonna be on your end. Like, these are the things you're going to have to do. This is the recipe you're going to have to follow if you wanna see the results.

And if you don't want to do it, then don't sign up, right? I'm not saying you have to love doing it, but you have to be willing to commit to doing it. And if you won't, if you're not willing or you're not able for some reason to do these protocols, don't sign up for the program because it will hamper your results and it you'll waste your money.

And especially with a guy like this who we know, the biggest problem here is the, the personality clash, right? So we have a dog that's really pushy, really autonomous, really independent, frantic, and then we have an owner who just feels bad and kind of feels like it's her fault for getting a dog she shouldn't have gotten and has never really provided a negative consequence again in the dog's eyes, right? She's never been able to provide a consequence that the dog cared about. And so if she's not willing or able to do that, it won't pan out well.

I mean, the good news is if you have a dog like this most of the time, and you are willing to do that, you could be blown away by how different things could be. And that's why I do this job.

That's why we do this. There is nothing more gratifying than taking a situation like this where both the human and the dog, I believe are suffering immensely. And over the course of just a few weeks, we can get them totally on the same page. And it doesn't mean things are gonna be perfect, but the dog is gonna have lots of new skills. The dog is gonna be in a much better state of mind. They're gonna be more comfortable, they're gonna be more respectful. The owner's gonna have the tools to get the behaviors from the dog when they want them, and they're going to have the tools to eliminate any behaviors that they don't like, right?

Even if we've already done it, they're probably gonna have to do it again. 'cause the dog's gonna go home and go, PI don't do this here. This is what I do here. I just chew the chairs. I just jump up and knit people, right? They're, they're probably maybe gonna give it another go. And so we teach the owners that because they have to know, because if they don't, the dog will just start running them over again.

And that's why there's no such thing as just fixing a dog, right? That's why a lot of rescues, they want you to, especially since they, they're either opposed to ecos, they're opposed to punishment of any kind, you know? Or maybe they're not, but they know everyone else's, so they don't wanna be open about it, and they want you to just take a dog and fix it and then send it back. That just isn't how it works. And I won't do it. I will not do it because it is a waste. And also because I just don't have it in me to hide what I'm doing.

31:00 — Kati rejects fixing a dog and sending it home because owners must learn and…

I would never, never do that. It feels awful and gross and sick to me. And you could not pay me enough money to train a dog and then lie about it by omitting everything that I did.

No way that would make me part of the problem. And I just don't have it in me to do that. I find that to be just absolutely abhorrent. Um, but yeah, that's why that won't work. You can't send a dog to me, have me fix it, and then just send it back. The owner has to be trained too. And I'm more than happy to do that. If a rescue wants to send me a dog and then send along a new prospective owner to learn everything when the dog is done, fan fucking fantastic, let's do it.

But otherwise I won't, I won't do it because it just doesn't do any good because the dog is who they are, guys. That's the thing. And we can't change that, right? I can't change the dog's personality. And it's funny because a lot of people worry about that when I talk to them.

They're like, oh, well, you know, I don't wanna turn my dog into a robot. I don't wanna crush his spirit, whatever the hell that means. I don't wanna, you know, change his personality. I'm like, I wish I could change a dog's personality. You know, how easy my job would be <laugh> if I could just make a dog's personality better, because we get some that aren't great, like the one I'm describing. Um, but we can't. The dog will always be who they are. Yes, we can get them to make different choices, but they're still gonna gravitate back to those old choices if they're put into an environment where we nurture that because it's who they are naturally, that's their homeostasis, right?

So it's a little unnatural for them to make different choices. It gets easier and more natural over time. But that can take a long time.

And for some dogs, it's never gonna become like the permanent default unless they're with somebody that they know enforces rules, right? And what will happen is you might get that dog to a place where it's really easy for them to make good decisions, and they do it all the time and everything's great, maybe even a period of years, and everything's fine. And you never even have to give them a reminder, right? But because they have a relationship with you of accountability and standards. And what happens is if you put them into a different home with a softer owner who doesn't know this stuff, they're gonna have a different lifestyle and they're gonna be letting things slide that maybe you wouldn't have simple things, right?

Like being polite around food, like waiting for food, like being polite at the door, right? Or maybe just barking at someone they see out the window. And so maybe a ton of cuddling, right? Sleeping in the bed, like all these little things that maybe you're not doing right? You put the dog into a new home with someone that is doing all these little things and it starts to snowball and the dog starts to gravitate back into their old default self with, with those old decisions. And the next thing you know, the dog's running all over, people biting, going crazy, frantic again,

Right? So there's no fairy dust, there's no easy button. The owner has to be trained too. Um, and I got the sense that she felt very torn about this and was, you know, wondering if maybe she should rehome the dog to go live on a farm. And like that, <laugh> sounds great in theory. Um, but again, nobody wants a dog like this, right? So you take someone that has a farm, most people, they still want the dog to be a pet too, right? They don't want a dog that does this. And I think too, a lot of people have in their head the idea that if the dog just gets more exercise, like if the dog can go out on a farm and just run free for a little bit, that like, that's gonna fix the problem and they're not gonna be an asshole anymore.

35:00 — A farm is not an automatic solution because working dogs still live with household…

But no, that's not how it works, right? They're gonna run free, get all their energy out, run around, and then take a nap for a half an hour, like a fucking power nap. And then they're gonna get up and be a super asshole, right? 'cause they got even more energy. Now, that was a great nap.

Uh, now I have all this more energy so that I can just chew more furniture and jump on more people and rip more clothing and bark my foolish ass off. And that's what generally happens is people get super reliant on exercise to just make the dog like subdued, right? To make them tired. And then they say, that's a good dog. No, that's not a good dog. It's a tire dog, and it's not going to last. It's not going to last. The dog's gonna take a nap. They're gonna get up, they're gonna be better than ever.

And then you're gonna have to go snap back to it and get out there and run the damn dog around, or they're gonna go back to being a jerk, right? And I use those terms just because I'm honest, like the dog is being a jerk, right? And not entirely the fault of the dog because no one has really told him not to.

That's what's missing. But it's also the piece that the people have the hardest time with. It's like, you have to do this, you have to use the structure, you have to limit the autonomy for a little while. At least you have to provide negative consequences. That might be the most important piece of the program when we're dealing with a dog like this, because they have so many behaviors that are unwanted, and so many of them are dangerous. And so many of them affect the dynamic with the humans and the relationship and how they're viewed and what's gonna happen in the future.

And if you don't provide those negative consequences, then we just nurture those behaviors, they continue to flourish and things go even further off the rails until someone like really gets hurt or the dog gets, you know, run over or whatever happens. Um, it's so, so important.

Um, but I think, you know, as in the case of this lady, sometimes people get torn between should they do the training? Should they rehome the dog? Um, you know, what is the right solution? But I think it pays to remember that nobody wants a dog like that. And you know, yeah, maybe if he could go to a farm and be a working dog, great. But I'd like to remind you that working dogs have rules. It's work. It's not play. They love to do it, right? Because it's in their genes. So let's just say this dog was a good sheep dog and did go to work on a farm.

38:00 — Even genuine farm work includes rules and consequences when a working dog makes mistakes.

Great. Do you think there aren't gonna be consequences for him messing up? You are sorely mistaken, my friend. There are rules and there are consequences for working dogs, otherwise it wouldn't work out, right? You can't have working dogs that are just doing whatever they want, right? A common example that another trainer uses is healers, cattle dogs, right? They can't heal horses with riders. I suppose that would probably go for these guys too, right? If you have a sheep dog, you have a herding dog, they can't herd horses with riders. And if they do, there will be a consequence, right?

That's just one example.

But so if you feel like you're sparing the dog learning, if you feel like you're sparing them negative consequences by re-homing them even to a working home, you are just wrong. Negative consequences will have to happen for this dog. Or the dog will probably end up in a shelter or dead. It doesn't matter who has the dog. That's true, right? And I think in some cases, a working home is better for the dog, but I don't think it's necessary. Most of the time you can fulfill a dog, you can cover all of their needs, right?

Nutritionally exercise. Um, and you can give them work, even if it's not the work they were bred to do. Just obedience is work. Go walk in a heel for an hour, that's work.

Um, you know, it looks different, a little different for every dog. Some dogs that might be the right answer. And I wanna be very clear that I think that's a super personal decision. I don't think there's a right or a wrong answer for people. Um, as far as, you know, if you're having a really hard time with your dog and you're thinking, geez, maybe this just isn't the right home for this dog, I think absolutely, sometimes it's not the right home for the dog and it's a really super personal choice. But again, if your dog has behavioral issues, you have to be open and upfront about that.

And I think the unfortunate truth is most people won't want a dog with all those behavioral issues. If you are open and honest about it, why would they? Right? And so if it's in your budget, if it's in you emotionally, to have the gumption do a good training program with somebody who actually knows what they're doing. And, uh, if you still, if you still are struggling, then maybe it is time to think about rehoming, right? Or euthanasia if your dog is a dangerous dog, right?

41:00 — Kati frames rehoming or euthanasia as personal edge-case decisions after serious training efforts, especially…

Um, but it's a really, really personal choice. And I think

That you can't judge somebody for making one choice or the other. Um, but I'm really rooting for these, these folks. Uh, she has not signed up. My feeling is that she's probably not going to. Um, and that's okay, but I hope at some point the dog gets the, um, training that is needed. And which really comes down to just firmer leadership, just firmer leadership. And I mean, if I am to be honest, a lot of these behaviors, you know, yes, we want the mindset to change. We wanna use the structure, we wanna look at the lifestyle.

But even if you're not perfect, even if you're not going all out, even if you're not doing all of that stuff, a lot of these basic behaviors, the barking, the jumping, the chewing can be stopped with a rolled up towel, right? And you've probably got a hundred of those in your bathroom right now.

And if you know how to do it, you can knock those behaviors out most of the time and think about how much that alone changes the dynamic. And people think, oh, my dog's gonna hate me now I'm gonna damage our relationship. No, you're not. You know, what's damaging your relationship? All this nonsense that your dog is doing that's damaging your relationship. You're walking around frustrated all the time, yelling, screaming, you hate the dog, then you go to bed, you're crying, you love the dog. Um, it's toxic. Providing a punishment will save your relationship. Um, and it can be done easily most of the time, not all the time, but most of the time if you know how to do it right?

And so you have, when you get a dog, I think you have to be prepared to be in that leadership role. And it's gonna look a little different for every dog.

Some dogs need a firmer handler than others. Some dogs can handle more freedom than others. Some dogs can handle more softness and affection and sleeping in the bed. Some can't. Some dogs are more independent, some dogs are more readily take direction, they're all different. And the fact is, you just don't know what you're gonna end up with. Um, even if your dog's a great puppy, things can start to change as they move through adolescence. Um, and it can start to look a little bit different. And you have to be ready to give your dog whatever it is they need.

Unfortunately, you don't get to decide what your dog needs. You just don't get to decide that. Um, you do to a degree, right? Because your expectations might be different depending on your lifestyle, right? Every family has different needs. So it might be okay for a dog to do one thing in one family and not in another family. However, if something is a problem, you don't get to choose. You don't get to choose what will influence the dog's behavior. The dog decides that they're all different. And, but I think, you know, this is kind of an extreme example of like every day just being really hard and really stressful, but it's really, really common for people to have dogs that, um, just aren't fitting into the mold of family life.

And there's more stress than there needs to be. And like everything needs to be every mundane thing like has to be planned kind of around the dog. Some people can't leave their dogs alone.

Some people can't put a leash on their dog. Um, you know, some people can't walk into the room if their dog has a bone, right? So different people, different dogs, different problems. But again, if you actually have to put a lot of thought into whether or not you should do something or how to do something, that might mean that you're dealing with something you really need some help with. And it might mean you need to keep an open mind about what's gonna get you from point A to point B. And there's a saying out there, right?

That we get the dog we need, not the dog we want. And I certainly think that's the case for a lot of our clients. Um, you know, this lady in particular has had dogs before and they were really soft and easy and she had no trouble. And, uh, that's not the dog she got this time and there might be a reason for that. Maybe this dog is here to teach her something. I learned so much from my <laugh>, my shitty puppy, that <laugh> that I had, uh, that got me into dog training. And I'm so grateful for that.

46:00 — Kati connects this work to lessons learned from her own difficult dog and her…

And it was a really, the story had a sad ending because I, I did ultimately end up deciding it was best to euthanize her. Um,

And it was really hard. But the fact is, we actually made it much, much farther than I think she would've made it in any other household. And I learned more in those couple of years than I could have ever dreamed of learning anywhere else.

Um, it was an experience and she was an amazing teacher. And that's why now my passion is to pass that on and to help people that are in situations like this lady is. And that's why we have this podcast so that we can share all this stuff with you guys. But, uh, I, you know, dogs like this, most of the time things can be way better, man, so much better. And the relationship is so much better, and it's so gratifying when we're able to do that for people and we're able to see them at their follow up and they're just beaming because life is just so much easier and so much better.

And they actually, one of the things they'll say is they actually feel like they have a dog now, right? Instead of a full-time job that's loaded with stress, they feel like they have a dog and they can do things with them and they can go places with them.

And that's what we want for you, <laugh> for you guys. That's what we want for our clients. Um, but yeah, hopefully fingers crossed that we'll still hear back from her and, uh, if we do, we will certainly keep you updated on how things go. That would be very exciting. But that's it for today, guys. Thank you so much for joining me. Please do send your, uh, suggestions, comments, topics, things you want discussed too, Kati, Kati at Diamond Canine dot com. That's Kati at Diamond Canine, C-A-N-I-N e.com. Would love to hear from you. Always looking for new things to talk about.

And, uh, that's it. That's it. Till next time. All right, bye guys.