Behavioral Issues: They Rarely “Start Suddenly” — Read the Signs, Not the Story

00:00 — Kati Peppe introduces Diamond Canine Dog Training and its work in off-leash obedience and…

Welcome to Off Leash and Unfiltered Trigger Warning. I'm Kati Peppe, delivering the Truth in Dog Training.

Thanks for joining us for another episode of Off Leash and Unfiltered. I'm your host, Kati Peppe, and I own Diamond Canine Dog training in Biddeford, Maine. We specialize in eco training for off-leash obedience and behavior modifications, so helping people stop behaviors they don't like. Barking, jumping, getting into the trash and more serious things. Leash, reactivity, aggression, resource guarding. And we love working with nervous and fearful and anxious dogs as well. We also offer puppy programs, so that's who we are and what we do. And this podcast is just our way of sharing everything we see and do and learn every day with you guys.

Everything we're doing with the dogs and with our clients. And our hope is you'll get something out of this that will help you with your own dog. So don't forget to hit subscribe to help support the podcast. Let's dive in.

Today we're talking about behavioral issues and I'll tell you what, whether or not your dog has them or whether or not you think your dog has them, this is an epi episode you should listen to because it strikes me so, so often that people call us, they call us. I don't wanna say when it's too late 'cause it's, it's never really too late, right? But after things have already become problematic for them, right? So the dog might have stuff brewing for a long time, but it just hasn't really been a problem for the owner, or it hasn't been enough of a problem for them to seek training.

And what we see happen is once the dog finally is in a place where they can't be walked in public or they bite somebody, or they get into a dog fight, or they attack a dog or whatever, um, or they, you know, they get away and they don't come back.

You know, that's when we finally get the phone call. Not always, of course, but so, so often. And what's funny is so frequently when this is the case, also hear that this was a, a sudden onset of an issue, right? So separation anxiety too is another good example of that. So often we hear that it was never a problem until right, and a lot of times there'll be some kind of event that happened, and that's where people tend to place their, um, that's where people tend to place the gravity, I guess, on the situation. That's what people tend to look at as the pivotal point.

03:00 — The event owners identify as pivotal usually is not where the dog’s behavioral pattern…

And it usually isn't. And I mean, there's no way to know for sure, right? But usually once we get to know the dog and we kind of get the full backstory from the owner about how the dog was before everything went down, so to speak, um, we come to realize that it probably wasn't anything to do with this event, but it's really easy for the human to see that timeline and put all the blame there.

Another thing that happens sometimes is sometimes it gets blamed on the training, right? We've met people that have done eco training, and if their dog ever takes a turn for the worst, they just assume it was because they did the eco training. Um, especially when, you know, there's, uh, a narrative out there that tells you that will happen, which it doesn't, by the way. Um, but of course, you know, there's always gonna be some that do because even if you had never done the training, it was just bound to happen. Um, we had a boxer one time that, uh, was a good dog, but just was, um, really, really kind of nutty and challenging, and he was very reactive and just kind of stubborn, like really would, you know, dig, dig his feet in, put the brakes on, didn't wanna do the stuff you were, you know, all that.

But but other than that, I mean, he was a pretty good dog and he was affectionate and he was happy. And, um, but you know, he did the eco training. His owner thanked us immensely. He drove here from five, six hours away and they went home and things were wonderful. Um, for a while. He finally could get the behaviors he wanted from his dog. He could take him places. He said his own words, said he finally felt like he had a dog. Um, you know, and I think it was six to 12 months later, they ended up having to put him down because he was so aggressive.

Um, but that didn't have anything to do with the e-collar eyes. Like this dog's personality from the get go had red flags. Yes, he was a pretty good dog. Yes, he was affectionate with people that he knew.

Um, but he definitely had anomalies. He definitely had aspects of his personality, um, that would set off the radar that weren't typical. Um, and we saw those, you know, and we worked with it, and we did the best we could. And he actually ended up staying a little extra time because I just didn't quite feel like he was where I would want him to be when he went home. So we actually kept him a little bit longer, and he was here for probably close to a month, um, just to learn <laugh>, you know, the behaviors that we want the dog to learn when they're with us.

Um, so he, he definitely had his, he wasn't without challenge, so I don't wanna make it sound that way. Um, and, you know, eventually for whatever reason, he just started biting everybody in his house, uh, for no reason.

And people that don't like the eco are going to tell you that that's because of the eco training bullshit. No, it's not. Okay. We have trained thousands of dogs on an e-collar. Um, that doesn't happen. I don't have any other cases where that happened. So to take this one case and say, oh, it's because of the e-collar, um, is absolutely fucking ridiculous, okay? This is just, this was his dog's path, this was his genetics. Um, and most likely there was absolutely nothing that the owners or the family would've been able to do, um, to change this course.

I feel like they actually did everything they could, and they, they did a good job. Um, and they made it as far as they could. So, um, but my point here anyway, this was not, <laugh> not intended to be, um, a rant about how eColors don't create aggression.

07:00 — Kati argues that people use past events to explain behavior that was already developing…

Um, because they don't, that's silly, but it was more meant to be, people can look at that timeline and they can say, well, this happened in the past, so that must be the reason, right? And so another good example of that is a dog. It's attacked by other dogs. Um, and then if down the road he becomes reactive, he becomes aggressive, it's because he was attacked. Um, so that's really, really common. In fact, that is the case with one of the dogs we have in our care right now. His name is Dragon. Um, and is that the case?

I don't know. And that's the, you know, that, that's kind of my point too, is like, you'll never know. It might be we'll never know. Um, but a lot of the time when you dig into it, you realize the dog actually was exhibiting signs of discomfort, um, signs of anxiety, all these things before that event.

Um, but then because the dog escalated, we then turn to that event and say, that's why that happened. Um, and it might not be, you know, not that it matters. So I wanna state that too. Like, it just doesn't matter. So I recently didn an episode about the root cause of your dog's behavior. It doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter. So a good number of trainers out there are gonna get you chasing your tail, send you on a wild goose chase trying to figure out what is the root cause of your dog's problems. And you have to address the root cause.

No, you don't. You can modify your dog's behavior without being a dog psychologist. <laugh>, okay? You don't need to lay your dog out on the couch. You don't need to prescribe him antipsychotics. You don't need to unpack his childhood. Uh, you can just take the dog you have in front of you, meet him where he is and help him change, okay?

But it's, it's really easy for the human to pin things on an event. Uh, we hear all the time about dogs snapping, right? Pities particularly, we hear that a lot, that all of a sudden they just turn or they just snap. Um, not usually the case. I'm not saying it can't happen. Um, but especially with kids, like kids climbing all over, dogs, pulling ears, um, just getting in the dog's space, you know, getting too close to their food when they're eating right, the dogs won't necessarily bite, at least not from the beginning, right? And those are really the things that most humans recognize, right?

They recognize biting and they recognize growling, but anything below that takes a slightly more trained eye, right? So you don't have to be an expert necessarily, but until you've worked with a lot of dogs, you're not necessarily gonna notice the subtler signs or know what they mean.

10:00 — Children may miss subtle signs that a dog feels uncomfortable or is becoming protective…

So a lot of times what we find is dogs were actually exhibiting signs, um, that the child was making them uncomfortable. The child was putting them into sort of guarding mode around their food. Um, but it was quiet guarding mode, right? So there weren't any vocal signs yet. There wasn't any growling, there wasn't any barking, there wasn't any lunging or snapping. Um, but there might just be something like stiffening eating faster, keeping the head low while looking up at the, at the person, um, things of that nature that might go unnoticed. And then when this continues to happen, time after time after time, eventually dog escalates, it turns into a growl and, or a bark and or a bite, a snap, a lunge, uh, might just be an air snap, might be an actual bite.

And then it's the, from the person's perspective, it's all of a sudden, but it really wasn't.

Um, so we see, we see all those scenarios a lot. So what does my point in all of this? Well, my point is, where does a behavioral issue actually begin, right? Because from most people's perspective, when they're not really thinking about that or not really paying attention, the behavioral issue begins when they start seeing the thing that really causes them a problem. But that's, that's a line that you've drawn in your head that's not real. So if you have a really reactive dog, most people think the problem began the first time they saw the severe reactivity, right?

The first time their dog actually ripped their shoulder out of the socket trying to get across the street to the other dog. Um, the first time their dog was up on its hind legs barking and they couldn't pull it away and it looked like cujo. But really, there might have been things before that when that dog was just a little itty bitty puppy.

Its reaction to other dogs might have been somewhat atypical or a extreme right? And I don't necessarily wanna say abnormal, these are all just behaviors and dogs doing dog stuff. I don't think they're abnormal, but nonetheless, they're not acceptable. Um, and usually we're missing it until it becomes a real problem. Uh, which by the way, is why people tend not to listen to their dog trainer <laugh> when they have a pretty well-behaved dog and they don't have a lot of problems. Um, and that's kind of why, you know, it's worth listening to them. If you have a trainer who tells you, look, these are the patterns we see, these are the rules and boundaries we recommend, um, for you to have the best outcome and the best chance of success, and to avoid the common problems.

13:00 — Trainers recommend rules and boundaries because recognized patterns can evolve into common behavior problems.

You know, if they say this or that could evolve into this, um, you should listen to them, right? Because it's like, why not?

Why wait until something that's not a problem becomes a problem to address it, and then everything's harder, it's harder for the dog, it's harder for you. Um, your dog trainer deserves that level of respect for their opinion, right? Now, I'm not saying you have to agree with everything your dog trainer says. I'm not saying, um, that you have to follow their orders, even it's your dog, right? You can do whatever you want. Um, but generally speaking, if they're giving you that advice, that means you've paid them <laugh> and you're, you're paying them for their expertise.

So before you just dismiss everything they said as them being, you know, militant or just overly passionate about, um, a training, right? Or dismiss them as trying to, uh, look like they have the perfect dog and the perfect life with their dog. Which by the way, we, we don't <laugh> and them trying to pass judgment on you or like control you, like I can't speak for everyone else, but that certainly isn't my goal when I'm giving this advice to people, I have zero desire to control people. None. None. Um, does it bother me when they don't take my advice?

Yeah. Because I know that that's a mistake. Um, and at the end of the day, as long as they're happy, though, I'm happy. But that is where it can become frustrating, is if somebody isn't happy, right? Because things do go off the rails a bit. Um, and behaviors develop that they don't like that they are still frustrated by that they are having to nag the dog about. Um, and I know it doesn't need to be that way. They just need to make this one change that I keep telling them they <laugh> they need to make.

Um, of course that's frustrating, right? But it's not because they're not listening to me and I can't control them. It's because my job is to help them get from point A to point B. Um, but you can lead a horse to water and you can't make it drink <laugh>.

So, um, so yeah, that, that can be hard. Um, we have lots of people of course that don't do all the stuff we do with the dogs here and, and that's totally fine. Um, as long as they are genuinely satisfied with their dog's behavior, right? If you're not, then you should probably start listening to your dog trainer, at least consider it <laugh>. Um, yeah, because of course we're really, really passionate about that and getting dogs to be the best they can be. So when we see a dog that's doing pretty well, it doesn't have any major problems, but our, we've done this so much, our brains can pick out the patterns of, you know, some of the dog's behaviors that are being, that we're seeing or that are being described.

And we can say, I've seen this group of traits before and this is also usually attached to that. And if the owner's not seeing that, now we know there's a high likelihood that it's coming.

17:00 — Dogs that bark or growl while being corrected may have increased risk of escalating…

Um, a good example of that would be dogs that are, that talk back. So if you have a dog and you, um, kind of reprimand them for something, and most people don't know how to give a proper correction, they, 'cause they haven't had the training and you know, they don't, might not have the proper tools, they don't have the skills to do it. So, but people are, you know, obviously they get mad in the moment, right? They get frustrated and so they express that like they, you know, their voice, they raise their voice or, um, maybe they're making more body gestures than they normally would.

So the dog knows they're upset, right? Consents their energy. And, and if the dog talks back like barks, growls or even tries to bite, um, in that moment, that's kind of a red flag that things are going south.

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<laugh>, thank you for being here guys, and thank you for your support. Right? So dogs that talk back is a good one. It's like, even if the dog is doing great in every other way, they haven't seen any other problems. Like I know from experience, that's not a great sign of things to come <laugh>.

And so you should listen to your dog trainer when they tell you, Hey, I've seen kind of these personality traits before. I've seen these behaviors before. And we find that there's a higher incidence of these other behaviors occurring when we see that. Um, so these are the things, if this was my dog, right, these are the things I would do to set us up for success and help navigate us down a different road with a different result just in case, right? 'cause there is no way to know. Like, I can't tell someone that their dog is going to become, you know, highly aggressive or a resource garter or any of that.

There's no way to know that.

But it's like statistics, right? I can say, well, there's a high likelihood, but statistics are the same. They can't, they can't tell you what the outcome will be, but they can tell you the likelihood. Um, and so most of the time if you've got a pretty good dog and you're not having any real problems and your dog trainer's asking you to do things you don't really feel like you should have to do, 'cause your dog's pretty good, that's probably why, right? And so if they're not clear about that, if they don't state that, then ask like, oh, you know, why would you recommend that?

Like, um, what's your experience been like? You know, get an explanation from them. Um, but at the end of the day, it's just what we do <laugh>, it's just what we do. But we do see oftentimes that human brain trying to pin the dog's, quote unquote new behavior onto some kind of recent event.

And it just isn't usually the way these things usually develop over time. And they're nurtured. Um, and they've been going on for a while. And while we're on the topic <laugh>, they're often nurtured with positive reinforcement. So, you know, it's funny because we talked earlier in the episode about, you know, eco getting blamed for dog aggression. You know, just because a dog becomes aggressive and has had eco training doesn't mean there's any relation whatsoever, right? I mean, if you wanna make that that correlation, you could say any number of things, you could say it's because you feed your dogs a certain brand of food.

21:00 — Blaming food, water, or training tools for aggression creates unsupported correlations instead of addressing…

You could say it's because your dog drinks water. You could say it's because your dog went outside too early in the day, right? I mean, there's a million things your dog does before the aggressive behavior that you could just say, oh, that's why.

Um, so it's just silly. It's just silly to do that unless there's really clear evidence indicating, um, that dogs that don't have that training never become aggressive. And that's just not the case. In fact, it's if there is a correlation, it's gonna be the other way around. <laugh> dogs without training are more likely to become aggressive. Um, almost for sure. So, um, where was I going with this? Oh yeah. The point was that even though you can't point to an eco, you really can't point to an eco and say, oh, it made the dog aggressive.

Um, what's funny is

That we've really just never seen ecos quote unquote make a dog aggressive. Like it just, it just doesn't happen. And if I am to be a hundred percent honest, aggressive behaviors typically are just genetically generated behaviors. First of all, they're natural behaviors for dogs to do. Again, these aren't abnormal behaviors most of the time it's just dogs being dogs. And you can either discourage and reduce that behavior or you can encourage and increase that behavior. And so the funny thing is, it gets blamed on ecos and prong collars and all this wacky, silly nonsense. And really the most likely thing that has happened, and we see this a lot, is it's actually the fault of positive reinforcement.

Now, when I say fault, I don't mean entirely because again, these behaviors are the dog's natural proclivity. Like it had to come from somewhere originally. And I firmly believe it's just in the dog's jeans.

It's, it's part of their physical makeup to do these behaviors. Um, but again, we can nurture and increase them, right? And that's generally what happens when people start trying to solve these problems with positive reinforcement because it is such a powerful tool. I'll never deny that. Positive reinforcement is a very powerful tool and that's why we use it. We use it when dogs first come in to teach them stuff, but because it is so powerful, it is also very, very dangerous my friend. So you're way more likely to inadvertently increase the incidence of aggression when you're trying to fix your problem with positive reinforcement, right?

So I'm not saying that there's never a place for positive reinforcement when you're dealing with an aggressive dog, but I'm saying, boy, I would sure want someone with some experience and some skill to know what I should be doing and when I should be doing it.

24:00 — Reading the dog’s state of mind and behavior sequence determines when and how intervention…

IMing is important, state of mind's important. Um, the sequence of the behavior and when it actually starts and knowing all that is very important. And so if you don't know that, you may very well just be increasing the frequency and intensity of the behavior that you're trying to get rid of, right? Because you're not gonna stop a behavior not long term. It's not gonna stick. You're not gonna stop a behavior with positive reinforcement. You might interrupt it in some cases. You might even be able to put the brakes on it for now, but it will easily regenerate fairly quickly.

It will regenerate. And so you have to know how to stop it when that happens. And it's not gonna be through positive reinforcement. But anyway, dogs learn. So my husband goes into homes all the time working on, uh, nose and keyboards and things of that nature.

And when he, he sees lots of dogs, of course, and it's not uncommon at all for him to go into a house, have a dog charge at him, bark at him, growl at him, not anymore since he had his lip ripped off his face. Um, but that used to be very common. And then the dog would turn around and just look at their owner. Now, why do you think that is? Because they know it's time to get their treat <laugh>. So, um, so they've just, so I'm not saying that they created the behavior with positive reinforcement, right?

This is probably most likely a thing the dog just did on their own because it's a dog thing to do. But then they quickly found out that, hey, I do this. I go get food, I do this, I go get food. So, and he can tell, 'cause he is pretty adept at reading dogs at this point.

Obviously he can tell that the dog isn't even in a state where they're feeling insecure, unsure, hostile, they're kind of just doing this to do it and get food, right? Because that's what they've learned. Um, so he knows the dog's not even really a threat to him, but they've just learned to go nuts when someone comes through the door and then go get their food. And I shouldn't really say not a threat to him because they do often get worked up into a pretty intense state of arousal, which can then morph into other stuff. And that does happen.

And he has seen that. Um, but a lot my point was just that a lot of these dogs are, are, they're just doing the sequence that they've learned, right? So you can easily create a sequence too with positive reinforcement where it's like your dog acts up and then you ask them to stop and give them food.

Your dog acts up, you ask them to stop and give them food. The dog acts up, you ask them to stop and give them food. And so you can see how you just create this never ending cycle and you chase your tail and around and around you go, um, which is the exact reason why we just correct the behavior. We just provide a correction, right? Because, and there's no food after that. Even if the dog does the right thing, it's the dog's jumping on somebody. You don't ask them to get down and give them food.

You just don't because you'll have to do it forever. What good is that? Your dog is still jumping. That is a huge failure.

The goal is not to get your dog to stop jumping in that moment. The goal is to get your dog to stop jumping forever, which is easy to do. Um, but again, I'm getting off track guys, 'cause that's what I do, <laugh>, because I'm very passionate about all the stuff, <laugh>, and I just start going down my own little rabbit hole about things that we're not supposed to be talking about today. Um, but hopefully that all all made sense. Um, but so, so often I just see things pinned on events. So I think my, my point here is number one, don't just don't be so sure.

28:00 — Kati advises owners to stop feeding themselves explanations that prevent fair boundaries and accountability.

Don't tell your, don't feed yourself a story about why your dog's doing what they're doing, because ultimately it doesn't matter. But also it can get in your way, right? So if you feel like your dog's acting up, um, because they were kicked down the stairs because they were attacked by a dog, because, because, because, because then it's harder for you to provide them with the rules, the boundaries, the accountability that they really need to get better.

So that's another great example. I had a German shepherd a few years ago, um, who was highly human reactive. Um, the woman did tell me that she had had a boyfriend. They were not together anymore. Um, but that her boyfriend was abusive. I didn't get the details. I don't know if it's true. I don't know what it looked like. Um, but you know, she said claimed that he was abusive, um, with her, her dog when her dog was younger. I don't know if he was really a puppy. Um, but I don't think he was fully grown.

So, uh, anyway, that's what she said. And then she was coming to me for the dog's reactivity and to get that under control. And, but so her reasoning was that because her boyfriend had allegedly been abusive with the dog, the dog was now human reactive. Um, but here's the thing, I, I dug in, I asked a few more questions and as it turned out, the dog didn't become reactive for another three or four months after that.

But that's not how it worked. It's like if your dog has a response to an occurrence, it's going to be immediate. I mean, what is your dog on delay? Do they have brain damage? Um, that just isn't how it works, right? So you can say, oh, my dog was attacked by another dog and then that's why my dog has now become severely reactive to other dogs. But you know, there was two months in between. It's like, no, it would be immediate. And that brings me to another good point, is if your dog does have an experience that could be traumatic, if your dog does have something really negative like that happen, the best thing you can do is get them right back into a similar situation where they can see it's fine.

That is the best thing you can do. Because then it just won't allow room for their brain to start creating this narrative and pretending there's a pattern that dogs are gonna get you, people are gonna get you.

Um, but what is our inclination as humans is to do the exact opposite, right? Not put our dog in that situation anymore. And I'm not saying put your dog into a dangerous situation where they will be hurt or they will be attacked. I'm saying you need to set up an environment that looks a lot like that one, but is safe so your dog can experience that and do it immediately, right? So first piece of advice I have to somebody whose dog was attacked, right? I have a customer who is just walking down the road and this particular customer, her dog's been attacked many times.

It's like a magnet. I don't know, <laugh>, I feel so bad for this dog. I don't know what the problem is. Um, but it, she's had multiple dog attacks. They're walking down the road and it's in their own neighborhoods, in their area and dog gets attacked. Okay?

That's awful. You need to get back out there. Like assuming your dog is physically able, like is medically okay? Get back out there today, today, tomorrow, every day. You gotta see dogs. You gotta see dogs in their yard. You gotta see dogs that are walking with their owners dog has to experience right away. Same scenario. I'm walking with the same handler, I'm in the same neighborhood, I'm seeing the same dogs. And you know what? It's okay. That is the the best thing you can do to avoid your dog setting a pattern in their brain that this scenario creates an issue and they need to react accordingly.

32:00 — After a bad event, controlled exposure to similar situations helps the dog experience safety…

Um, but most of the time it's just a, a narrative we've made up in our head. And that's partly because our brain just can't rationalize why things are suddenly changing. But the truth is they're not. We just never noticed it developing. We didn't notice aggression developing. We didn't notice the guarding developing. We didn't notice the separation anxiety developing until it got really bad. And then we go, geez, I wonder why that happened. It must have been this thing. But so the other point is, you think your dog's really good right now and maybe they are, but go the extra mile, right?

Take the extra steps

To help your dog become well balanced just in case you're missing something, right? I'm not saying you have to be nuts about it. Um, you know, if you've got a pretty good dog, it's not like, oh, they can never be in your bed and you shouldn't give 'em lots of affection. You, you have to eat before they do. We, we never do that by the way. That's just a load of crap. But I'm just saying don't assume that just because your dog doesn't have severe issues right now, that there's no proclivity in there, especially if they're really young.

'cause it may just not have fully manifested yet. 'cause sometimes that doesn't happen until they go through adolescence, they go through that maturation phase and then suddenly you see these behaviors you hadn't seen before, simply because hormonally, biologically, like they just weren't there yet. Um, so you're gonna see new stuff anyway as your dog moves through adolescence. But um, don't assume that what you see now is all you're ever gonna get. No dog is perfect, right? They all have stuff and just some, some dogs have worse stuff than others. <laugh> or stuff that could be become worse stuff.

So it's like go the extra mile, you know, don't nurture things that seem small now but could become big later. You know, learn how to address it and deal with it if you see small things like your dog being insecure or unsure around other dogs, being afraid of people not liking being left alone. Like if you see that stuff,

35:00 — Owners should address insecurity, fear, and isolation problems while they remain small enough to…

Go the extra mile and do the hard work that's no fun that nobody likes to do. So you can just make sure your dog turns out to be the most confident, balanced version of themselves they can be. We hope you enjoyed today's episode. If there's a topic you'd like to hear discussed, you can send that to me directly at Kati at Diamond Canine dot com via email. So I will link to that email address in the show notes. Thanks for joining us today, guys. Thanks for supporting the podcast and I look forward to the next one.