Consultation Files: My Daughter Is Taking Her Badly Behaved Emotional Support Dog to College

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Welcome to Off Leash and Unfiltered Trigger Warning. I'm Kati Peppe, delivering the Truth in Dog Training.

00:29 — Kati introduces Diamond K9 Dog Training and its focus on off-leash obedience and behavior…

Thanks for joining us for another episode of Off Leash and Unfiltered. I'm your host, Kati Peppe, and I own Diamond Canine Dog training in Biddeford, Maine. We specialize in eco training for off leash obedience and behavior modifications, so helping people stop behaviors they don't like. Barking, jumping, getting into the trash and more serious things, leash, reactivity, aggression, resource guarding, and we love working with nervous and fearful and anxious dogs as well. We also offer puppy programs, so that's who we are and what we do. And this podcast is just our way of sharing everything we see and do and learn every day with you guys, everything we're doing with the dogs and with our clients.

And our hope is you'll get something out of this that will help you with your own dog. So don't forget to hit subscribe to help support the podcast. Let's dive in today on this episode of Consultation Files.

We have a situation that I see unfolding a lot in households across the country, so I think this is a good one. Um, so let's start by saying, this person that called me, um, has a very small dog, Sachin and I love dachshunds. They are absolutely adorable. Um, and they have a ton of personality. However, as we often see with tiny dogs, and I mean with all dogs really, but especially with small dogs, everybody knows small dogs tend to get away with more, right? And they tend to get coddled more. And this dog is, I think, no exception.

So they have a small dog, um, that lives with them and has definitely developed some behaviors that are going to cause some long-term problems. So first of all, the dog has gotten very, very barky, especially when left alone. So the dog often sleeps in bed with her daughter and follows people around much like their shadow and receives a lot of affection.

And when left alone, the dog goes a little bit crazy, is very vocal, barks a lot, um, and that's problematic. Um, also the dog has learned to use its teeth in certain situations, at least with certain people. For instance, you can't trim her nails. She turns into a little demon dog, which we know is very common <laugh>. So, um, and also the dog learns quickly, um, and can execute commands, but there's basically zero chance of that ever happening when there's a distraction around. So, you know, it's the common thing that we hear all the time.

If they're inside and things are quiet and calm, the dog, especially if you've got a pocket full of food, dogs, very food driven, will do anything you want. But, you know, you step outdoors and there's a person, a dog, a squirrel, a scent, a sound, anything. And suddenly the dog has totally amnesia and hangs up the phone and just can't do anything you're asking the dog to do, uh, which is really unsafe.

03:32 — The dog obeys indoors but ignores commands whenever distractions appear.

And here's the real kicker. One of the biggest problems with this path of development that this dog is on is that this dog is supposed to be going off to college with the daughter <laugh>. So none of this stuff is going to fly on campus, especially the barking. Um, and the reason the dog is going off to college with the daughter is because the dog is, um, the dog is serving as an emotional support animal for the teenage daughter who I I think it's 17 ish right now. So college would be next year. And this is just a very specific scenario that I hear a lot and I, I know, I know when the request comes in via email and it says emotional support dog or emotional support animal, um, we know right off the bat what the problem is, right?

Maybe not, right? Every case is different. But my experience has been when we get a dog to be an emotional support animal, that dog has to bear a burden that not all dogs are suited to bear.

So, and in case you don't know, um, I think most people do, but in case you don't know, this is not a service dog. This is much different than an official service dog which is trained to perform a task and has public access. This is not that this is just an emotional support animal, but what that, if you think about what that means, it means we are relying on this dog to make us feel better, right? So you can picture that relationship and what that looks like, and it's not going to be a very neutral relationship.

It's not going to be a very balanced relationship. It's not necessarily going to be a relationship of leader follower. So a lot of dogs have a tendency to fall apart in that dynamic, um, because it is such a lopsided relationship. So generally speaking, their problems are pretty mild compared to what they could be.

Um, because again, if you have a dog that you never punish any behaviors, you will get the worst version of that dog, right? And so you could see how far south this could go, um, if they had a dog with natural tendencies, um, like resource guarding and, and that sort of thing, right? A lot of times dogs just completely go off the rails when our entire relationship with them is just softness. Again, not all it depends on the dog, right? But I always say, if you don't ever punish any behaviors, you will absolutely see the worst version of that dog.

Um, and so luckily the worst version of this dog isn't terrible. It could be worse, right? Um, but it also could continue to get worse. 'cause the dog is still young dog I think is less than a year, but is close to being a year old.

07:05 — At nearly one year old, the dog may soon develop additional behaviors as maturity…

And that's where we really see behavior start to bloom and blossom. Stuff you haven't seen yet, um, starts to manifest. And, um, so I think their timing is impeccable. I think if they're gonna do it, this is a great time to finally get it done earlier would've been better, right? But we can't turn back the clocks. Um, but now is better than six months from now when things potentially go even further south or new behaviors crop up. Um, maybe she learns to use her teeth in, you know, generalizes that to other scenarios, you know, like grooming, um, like, you know, she's already doing it for grooming as far as like nail trimming, but like maybe that escalates to brushing or touching at all, <laugh>.

It could, uh, maybe she starts guarding her owner. That would not surprise me at all. So these sorts of things start to blossom, um, as the dog comes into maturity.

And so I think getting this training done now could help prevent some, and there's no way to know, right? It's like take it with a grain of salt. We don't know. Maybe the dog won't develop any of that stuff. Um, but who wants to find out <laugh>? It's like things are already going south, so let's stop that in its tracks. Let's get the dog on track to become the best version of itself and let's not find out what the worst version was going to be, <laugh>. So that's kinda my philosophy. Um, we don't ever need to know.

And but that emotional support dynamic, um, it can be, it, it really can take a toll on the dog and ultimately then a toll on the relationship between the dog and the humans. And well now that really defeats the whole purpose, doesn't it? Because the reason you got the dog was for the relationship <laugh>.

So that's no good, right? Because now you're frustrated or stressed out and well, if you're getting an emotional support dog, the last thing you need is for the dog to stress you out on top of everything else, right? I'm assuming. Um, so that's not great. Um, but I think, and you know, my conversation with this woman was very frank, as I always am, and my concern, 'cause I I went through the whole training program, of course, and what we do and what I would recommend and, you know, getting the dog into a different head space and kind of balancing the relationship and, you know, just all the wonderful things that we would do, uh, with this dog.

And my concern is that, um, that the daughter isn't going to be super receptive to some of the aspects of the training, and you can't omit these aspects of the training, right?

Because if you did that, then you're basically where they are now, and that's not going to help, right? So, sure, I can, I can and probably would use some food, uh, working initially on the dog's commands and teaching her how to do certain things and making sure those behaviors are cemented, but then ultimately commands are gonna be non-negotiable. The dog has to listen, the dog has to come back when called. Um, and that's going to require accountability. And I'm not convinced that the daughter's gonna be very receptive to that. Also, getting the dog into a different head space dog has separation issues, um, sleeping in the bed with the owner, um, which is the daughter, it's the daughter's dog, is not going to help the separation issues <laugh>.

So, um, unfortunately, again, I don't think she's gonna be super receptive to that. Of course, the mom who I was on the phone with was very receptive to that and agreed completely.

Um, but the thing is, if the daughter's at college with the dog and she doesn't wanna do these things or even at home, but the dog and she doesn't really commit to doing these things, then they waste their money. And that's just no good. I don't wanna do that. I have no interest in taking people's money, um, if they're not going to be successful. And of course not everybody will be, and, and that's just life. Um, but if we know from the get go that they're doomed, then I, I'm just not going to do the program with them.

11:00 — If the college-bound handler will not enforce rules, the family should not spend money…

So it's really important that everyone really is on board and committed and, and excited to get the results. And I just see a lot <laugh> daughters in this age range and sons too. Um, but you know, teenagers in general, they're just, they're at a stage in their life a lot of times where they don't fully understand how the world works and they don't fully understand.

And let's face it, we all know people that are well into adulthood that still <laugh> still don't know how the world works, but I think it's quite normal and common at this age for them to just not be able to fully understand how this all works. Um, how behavior works and um, how we can nurture behaviors versus inhibit behaviors, encourage behaviors, discourage behaviors, and how that works with a dog that is not human, right? Because culture tends to tell us that everything unpleasant is bad, and that's just silly and infantile. But that is kind of the narrative out there.

And so as you're growing up, that's all you're taking in and it takes a good long time. I think me included. So when I was 17, I would not have been on board with this. I didn't get it <laugh>, okay? It took a good long time for me to figure out how the world works, how behavior works, and how life works and how reality works, right? So we grow up and we tend to be in that phase of our life, in this unnatural sort of infantile bubble where the information coming in is that everything unpleasant is bad, and everything pleasant is good.

And that philosophy just will not pan out when it comes to shaping behavior or life in general, right? So going to the dentist is really unpleasant. Does that make it bad? No.

Right? If I get a flu shot and it prevents the flu, which I don't by the way, but if I did, does that make it bad? Because it hurts when no, right? If your dog breaks a leg and has to have an operation and the operation hurts, is that bad? No. But for some reason we view the body and the mind differently. And so when our goal is to accomplish physical wellness, the pain is worth it. The unpleasant situation is worth it. But when it comes to behavioral and mental wellness, the pain all of a sudden is bad.

It's evil, it's wrong, it's immoral in some way, um, which is just silly, especially when we're talking about dogs, which are not human. You cannot sit them down and have a conversation with them. People do, it doesn't work, <laugh>. So physical communication is really all you have with your dog when it comes to influencing their behavior, right? We use food that's physical, we use play that's physical, we use affection, that's physical.

15:11 — Discouraging behavior without causing physical harm can make dogs more functional and reduce household…

But for some reason, when it comes to discouraging behaviors, inhibiting behaviors and negative consequences, all of a sudden doing that in a physical capacity is wrong and bad. Now, I would agree, if we were causing harm to the dog, right? We don't take out our anger on the dog, uh, we don't damage or injure the dog in any way, right? But if you don't have some physical means of negative consequence, then you won't be able to inhibit behaviors with the dog. And so I know in these people's case, and in every case of course, but they're not gonna reach their goals if they don't have her on board with that process.

Um, and not that long ago, I had someone cancel a program because she couldn't get her teenage girls on board. They were hemming and hawing and just crying and whining about the upcoming program they were gonna do with their dog. And they didn't wanna do it, and they didn't see why they had to do it. And you know, they love their dog and they don't wanna hurt 'em and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And to an extent I can see that, yes, but it's like at some point you have to teach your children about reality and how reality works and what good and bad actually means.

So again, allowing them to just take in all that information, you know, just from culture about what is unpleasant is bad, and what is pleasant is good, and not showing and teaching them what good and bad really means, um, is a disservice.

So, and this isn't me picking on parents or picking on my clients about their parroting, not at all. Uh, but what I am saying is if you find yourself in a position like this with your own dog and your own kids where you're on one page and your kids are on another, I think that's really common. I think it's, you know, quote unquote normal, meaning I don't think there's something wrong with your kids yet <laugh>, right? But if they don't figure it out at some point, that could lead to some dysfunctional behavior down the road.

A good good example is this, this, um, this Phillies incident we had, right? Like <laugh>, if you heard about that, the lady that went and just hassled this kid to get the ball and his father just gave her the ball back. And you know, you can say what you want about any of it. And, you know, maybe this lady was completely nuts and dangerous and maybe he was protecting his kid, but at the end of the day, you can't change the fact that this woman bullied them and he rewarded it. And that's not great, right?

And so one of the other things that are kind of interesting and normal, really about cases like this are the person that the dog is the most attached to. The person that the dog doesn't like being separated from. The person that the dog gets all excited about is the same person that the dog listens to the least, gives the hardest time to, and is the most likely to bite when it comes to grooming <laugh>. So that's really common, right? Because the whole relationship is so off kilter and imbalanced. It's all love, it's all softness, it's all affection, and there's no balance with rules, with boundaries, with expectations.

19:00 — Dogs often listen least and show more grooming-related aggression toward people who provide only…

None of that is there. And so of course, the dog is more likely to bite that person, right? Because that person is very soft in the dog's eyes, um, is not calling the shots, is not making the decision, is not enforcing boundaries or anything of that nature.

Um, so I hate to put it this way, but for lack of a better word at the moment, the person becomes somewhat of a doormat, right? The dog gets everything they want from this person all the time and never has to perform anything to any standard. Um, so that creates a real imbalance in the relationship. And, uh, I don't know, I wouldn't feel good about that, right? If I had a dog I loved dearly, um, in that I got more or less to help me with my emotions and my feelings and the dog thought it was okay in certain contexts to put their teeth on me, um, that would not make me feel good and I would wanna rectify that.

So hopefully, um, that gets, gets her on board. And, um, it sounds like her, her mom is all business and I, I loved it.

So she's really, um, holding her daughter's feet to the fire in terms of, you know, being the one that takes care of this dog and is responsible for the dog's training and paying for it and following through and committing to it and doing the stuff that needs to be done to kind of dig themselves out of this hole before it gets any deeper. So I'm really rooting for them and I'm hoping I hear back from them. Uh, it's been a few days, <laugh>, they haven't signed up yet. Um, but I have faith that they will.

And uh, I'm really interested to meet the daughter and kind of talk to her and, and see uh, you know, what we can accomplish together to get kind of her mind in the right place. Because like I said, I just see the scenario all the time. People actually cancel their programs because their kids just can't wrap their heads around negative consequences.

And so, and I don't know what their childhood looked like, right? Maybe they were really soft easy kids that never really needed any strong negative consequences. Um, and I think when that's the case too, it makes it harder to understand why our dogs need real negative consequences. Um, but they most certainly do. And you know, it's funny 'cause when we talk about those principles, everybody says, oh, it's just like kids, right? When I talk about if your dog does a a bad behavior, you need to tie a negative consequence to that. And it's really important that you follow through with that no matter what they do, right?

Because if you don't, then they'll just learn that they can do it again. And there's not gonna be a negative consequence 'cause that's what you're teaching them. And people will look at me and they'll say, oh, you know, it's just like kids.

And they'll say, well sure, but it's also just like you and me. So we're not exempt just because we're adults from the rules of behavior, right? And so one of the things I always say, if you've listened to my stuff, you've probably heard me say it before, is all you have to do is just stop and think about it for a few minutes the next time you're driving to work, driving to school, wherever you're going. Think about some of the things that you're gonna do today or did today earlier in the day that you really didn't wanna do.

And then think about why you did them. And your answer will absolutely unequivocally because it was better than the consequence. So this is true for all of us, every single day of our daily lives, right? And vice versa, there will be things that you really wanted to do that you don't.

And why is that? And really think about it, right? And it might be because you feel like it's immoral. So you'd have to live with guilt. It might be because you would make somebody angry and it scares you to deal with that consequence. It might be because it's bad for your health. It might be because you would gain weight. It might be all sorts of things, but whatever it is, it is absolutely unequivocally consequences that shape our behavior. But yet for some reason, we expect to have our dogs never experience anything except positive or neutral consequences.

And for them to just come out perfect. And it's a silly, silly philosophy, right? And so teenagers, most of the time I think this information, this way of thinking, these philosophies, they kind of slip through the cracks and they're getting all of the information about this from society instead of from their families, from their parents, from their own household. And society will shape your children to think that anything negative and unpleasant is bad.

24:24 — Parents must align household rules because family members who undermine training can erase progress.

And don't get me wrong, parents sometimes just teach their kids that directly, but those aren't usually my clients. <laugh>, those aren't usually my clients. Um, but we certainly know plenty of people, um, whom that's the case. Plenty of, you know, middle aged and older adults that still have this idea in their head that everything unpleasant is bad and everything pleasant is good. And you really don't need to sit there and think about that too deeply to come to the conclusion that that is a very flawed philosophy, <laugh>. So in my opinion, if we're not causing harm and we're attaining our goals and we're making the dog or child or person or whoever more functional, then that's the right thing to do.

Now if we're causing harm, that's different, but most of the time the harm that people talk about is fully imagined it's not real, right? People worry about causing harm, but it's not real. It doesn't actually happen, right? People, even well-known, established quote unquote authorities on the topic of behavior of dog training will often tell you that you're going to damage your relationship, you're going to damage your dog. And the fact is, it's just not true.

It's just a thing that they say it's not real. There is no evidence to support that we do this day in and day out with multiple dogs daily. And guess what? No harm done. We just stop the bad behaviors. And then your dog can be more functional. The humans can be more functional, the stress levels all come down. Your dog gets more freedom, they get more inclusion.

But getting your kids on board can be tough. And so if you have young kids and you start educating them on these philosophies early, right? I think that's helpful. So my daughter is 10 and I'm proud to say she totally gets it, totally gets it. And it's funny because she will now observe her own classmates and her own friends and draw conclusions about how they're being raised and why they are doing the things they're doing. And I just think that's so cool, <laugh>. I think that's so cool. But I mean, we start talking, we started talking about this stuff early, um, you know, just stories you'd hear in the news and like how people come to be that way and why that happens.

For instance, the ball, right? The Phillies ball game. Uh, this is a woman that's <laugh> always gotten her way and she's learned she can have a tantrum and get her way and she can punish people and get her way and she can be a bully and get her way. And nobody punishes that behavior. They just give her her way. And so here we are, full grown adult behaving like an actual infant.

Uh, not good. <laugh> not good. Um, so I think, you know, if you are one of those people, you're in that boat where you have an emotional service animal that's kind of falling apart. You just need to be open-minded to balancing that relationship. And you know, if you are, if you've previously been subscribed to the philosophy that you know all things that are unpleasant or bad, um, and only things that are pleasant or good, um, maybe reevaluate that a little bit and leave some room. Just leave some wiggle room for that to not be true.

Because surely you can think of things in your own life where that's not the case, right? No suffering really is just a hedonism, right? If there's no suffering, you have no discipline, you have no purpose. You're just indulging in everything that you want. And if your dog does that, it's not going to be pretty. Of course it's not, it's not going to be functional, it's not healthy.

Um, you know, and if you're in the boat where your kids are, are not on board with your dog training, um, it might be time to sit down as a family and talk about, nevermind whether or not you like the training and the stuff that's happening. Let's actually look at the facts in front of us of where we are and what's gonna happen if we don't do the training. 'cause fear is a very powerful motivator, <laugh>. So just as much as you want your dog to be good and you wanna be able to bring your dog places and you wanna be able to trust your dog, let's talk about what's gonna happen if we don't reach that point.

So that might be a good way to get everybody on the same page as far as we all want. What's best for the dog. And if you are not going to be able to do it, then you cannot interact with the dog, right? If you're not on board with the training, you will not be able to interact with the dog because you will have a demetrious effect. And for families that need their kids to interact with the dog because they need their help, like older children, that might mean the dog has to go.

And so take your pick, right? So life is hard. There are things in life that are hard. And think about what the value will be though, if your kids could come out of this experience actually learning something and actually seeing that something they thought was bad turned out to help their dog so much, right? But that won't happen if they're undermining you every day, every step of the way with the training, right? You really do have to step in and parent your children just like you have to parent the dog, right? You have to affect their behavior the same way you do the dogs.

If you allow your children to undermine you, um, it's kind of a double whammy. 'cause now they're not gonna learn what we hoped they would from this training experience with the dog and this really general life philosophy. But they're also going to learn <laugh> that they don't have to respect you or your rules or any authority figure for that matter, right? If they don't have to listen to you and your rules, then why listen to anybody's? So, and this isn't a parenting podcast, but just these are the things that roll around in my head because we run into this dynamic frequently, um, where people wanna train their dog and they get a lot of resistance from their kids.

And I feel for them, it's a really tough position to be in.

32:13 — Lasting change requires training the dog and family while enforcing the rules consistently.

But at the end of the day, as the parent, I think you have to take charge of the situation and you have to implement the rules and boundaries in your own home,

And you need to enforce them a hundred percent, right? So if you decide to train your dog, then you should train your dog and you should not allow your children to undermine you and get in the way of that. And so that's gonna look a little different for every household, I think. Um, but I really have seen that be a huge, huge issue, um, for some of our clients when they sign up for a program. And, um, it's unfortunate because ultimately I think everyone does want what's best for the dog. We just have a lot of conflicting ideas of what that is.

And again, at that tender young age, um, we just haven't had the time to see enough unfold that we really understand how this all works. And so I kind of view it as an opportunity, I guess is what I'm saying for the parents. It's an opportunity not to only train your dog, um, and get that back on the rails, but it might be a great opportunity, um, to show your, your kids that their philosophies might not always be rooted in reality the way that they think they are. They might learn something from this experience. But that's it for today, guys.

Thank you so much for joining me and of course I look forward to next time.